In this season of WorkLife, we’re pairing each of our regular episodes with a companion interview to do a deeper dive into the topic. This is the deeper dive for our episode on how to say no. Linda Babcock is a professor emerita of economics at Carnegie Mellon and co-author of “The No Club,” a club of people who help each other set boundaries. Linda and Adam share some of their personal struggles and lessons with around no, discuss Linda’s research on why women take on more non-promotable tasks at work, and explore novel strategies for us all to guard our time against people who don’t respect it.

To listen to our previous episode, "How to Say No," click here!

Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/)

Guest: Linda Babcock (Website: thenoclub.com) 

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The No Club: Putting a Stop to Women’s Dead-End Work

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In a world filled with requests, many of us are struggling to stay afloat. Even if you’re not a people-pleaser, the desire to maintain a positive reputation can make it hard to turn others down. In this episode, Adam explores the art and science of delivering an effective “no.” He highlights strategies for setting boundaries with others to create space for yourself—and healthier relationships with those around you. 

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Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/)

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Shonda Rhimes is the revolutionary creator, writer, and executive producer behind so many groundbreaking TV shows—from Grey’s Anatomy and Scandal to Bridgerton and How To Get Away With Murder. Her work has changed the way stories are told on TV and the lives of viewers who see themselves represented on the screen for the first time. Shonda and Adam sit down for a live conversation at BetterUp’s Uplift Summit to discuss the moments that shaped Shonda’s success, what it takes to make bold moves, and the lessons from Shonda’s memoir Year of Yes. They also compare notes on the shared traits of great leaders and storytellers, and Shonda weighs in on what makes a pitch compelling.

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Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/)

Guest: Shonda Rhimes (Instagram: @shondarhimes | TikTok: @shonarhimes) 

Links

shondaland.com

shondalandmedia.com

Year of Yes by Shonda Rhimes

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Melinda French Gates is a philanthropist, business leader, advocate, and self-proclaimed “recovering perfectionist.” In her new book, The Next Day, she opens up about the lessons she’s learned about change, from getting divorced to leaving the Gates Foundation that she co-founded and co-chaired for decades. Melinda and Adam discuss how derailment can become an opportunity for growth and emphasize the importance of a strong support system. They also dig into Melinda’s perspective on philanthropy, and debate whether it’s best to give with your head or your heart.

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Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/)

Guest: Melinda French Gates (Instagram: @melindafrenchgates | LinkedIn: @melindagates | Website: melindafrenchgates.com/) 

Links

The Next Day by Melinda French Gates

gatesfoundation.org

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What do you think will make you happy next year? According to Dan Gilbert’s research, your guess is probably wrong. Dan is a Harvard psychologist, bestselling author of Stumbling on Happiness, and popular TED talker, and he and Adam discuss why it’s so difficult to make accurate predictions about our own future and how to figure out what actually makes us happy. The two also chat about Dan’s experience as a high school dropout-turned-professor, examine why small annoyances might hang around longer than major gripes, and determine the best way to end a conversation.

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Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/)

Guest: Daniel Gilbert (X: @DanTGilbert) 

Links

Stumbling on Happiness

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Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird are two of the greatest athletes of all time — Megan is an Olympic gold medalist and was named the best soccer player in the world by FIFA. Sue has won five of her own Olympic gold medals in basketball and four WNBA championships. Now that the couple have each retired from their legendary sports careers, they host a podcast together, a Touch More, and continue to play a major role in the meteoric rise of women’s sports. They talk with Adam about how to make a team great and leadership lessons from sports. They also discuss their difficult decisions to retire, and how to know when it’s time to let go and move on.

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Host: Adam Grant (Instagram: @adamgrant | LinkedIn: @adammgrant | Website: adamgrant.net/)

Guests: Megan Rapinoe (Instagram: @mrapinoe) Sue Bird (Instagram: @sbird10) 

Links

youtube.com/@atouchmore

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David Fajgenbaum had his last rites read to him at 25 years old after a brutal struggle with an inflammatory disease that attacks the vital organs. As a medical student with two weeks left to live, he repurposed a drug and tested it on himself—and saved his own life. Now, he’s repeating the same process for many others through his nonprofit, Every Cure, with the mission of unlocking the full potential of existing drugs to treat every disease possible. David and Adam discuss the building blocks of resilience, explore the disincentives that prevent hidden cures from coming to light, and explain how AI is aiding creative discovery to save lives. 

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Host: Adam Grant (Instagram | LinkedIn | Website)

Guest: David Fajgenbaum (Instagram | LinkedIn) 

Links

https://everycure.org/

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Do you ever wish you could hibernate like a bear during the winter? Vladyslav Vyazovskiy thinks it might be possible. As a sleep physiologist at Oxford, Vladyslav studies why humans sleep and the sleep patterns of other species. He and Adam discuss the possibility of unlocking a hibernation ability in humans and its potential benefits – from curing cancer to enabling interplanetary travel. They also debunk some popular sleep misconceptions, debate the value of napping, and uncover just how little we really know about the science of sleep.

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Do you have an inner monologue? Ethan Kross is a psychologist and neuroscientist who studies our inner lives, from how you respond to the voice in your head to how you manage your emotions. Ethan and Adam compare notes on their inner voices (or lack thereof), share advice on how to calm an anxious mind, and discuss the benefits of mental time travel. They also analyze why venting can backfire.

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Have you heard of the word sonder? It’s the realization that each “random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own.” John Koenig introduced it in his book The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows—a compilation of new words aiming to capture the nuance and complexity of emotions that can be hard to put a finger on. In this vocabulary-expanding episode, John and Adam explore the sense of loss upon finishing a great book or movie, the dread of chasing a dream, and the awe of human existence. They discuss John’s method and motivation for inventing new words and consider the profound capacity for language to show people that they’re not alone.

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