Marissa Renee Lee has been through it. Harvard. Wall Street. The White House. And also: her mother's MS diagnosis at 13, stage four breast cancer, a pregnancy loss, and now two years of long COVID. What she's learned isn't that grief has a silver lining. It's that grief has a through line, and if you're honest enough to follow it, it leads somewhere real.

In this episode, Kelley sits down with Marissa, bestselling author of Grief Is Love and her newest book Waiting for Dawn, for a conversation that gets honest about what it actually costs to be the strong one. They talk about what happens to your identity when the thing you've always counted on, your strength, your body, your plan, disappears without asking permission. And what you reach for when it does.

What you'll hear:

• Why grief isn't a detour from your life story, it is your life story, and what high-achieving Black women lose when they don't name it
• The "Flake Permission Structure" — and why saying "I want to but I can't commit" is one of the most honest and loving things you can do
• What Marissa calls "good love" and why saying no to someone you love is sometimes the most caring thing you can offer
• The two tools she swears by when the uncertainty isn't going anywhere: radical honesty about where you are, and practical hope for where you're going

Episode Highlights & Timestamps

00:04:22 — Achievement as armor: Marissa traces how her drive for success started as a survival strategy at 13, when her mom got sick and she decided the only thing she could control was how hard she worked

00:22:11 — "Not everything can be fixed. Some things must be endured." Kelley and Marissa get honest about what it means to hold yourself together when the world isn't cooperating, and why shrinking your to-do list down to just two things is actually enough

00:28:09 — The Flake Permission Structure: why saying "I want to but I can't commit" upfront is kinder, more honest, and way less anxiety-inducing than the last-minute text we've all sent

00:34:00 — Good love and the hardest no: Marissa reframes saying no to someone you love not as a failure of care but as the fullest expression of it, and why learning to feed yourself first is how you actually show up for others

Gentle Invitation

Somewhere in your life right now, there's something you can't fix. You can only endure it.

What would it look like to be honest about that, not performatively, just to yourself? And what's the smallest, most stubborn piece of hope you can hold alongside it?

Start there. Build from there.

Connect with Marissa

Grab a copy of Waiting for Dawn wherever you buy your books — Marissa especially recommends your local indie bookstore.

Find her on Substack at Holding Both and everywhere else on the internet as @MarissaRenee.

Support the Show

Like, follow, and subscribe across all platforms. Find us @blackgirlburnout.

Subscribe to our newsletter at blackgirlburnout.com. Watch on YouTube. Drop a review — your words make a real difference, and they warm Kelley's whole heart every single time.

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There are moments when you realize you’ve drifted—away from your needs, your pace, your sense of self. In this episode, Kelley explores what it means to come back to yourself after seasons of burnout, overextension, or disconnection. She gently unpacks how easy it is to lose touch with your inner voice when you’ve been prioritizing expectations, survival, or the needs of others.

This conversation offers a grounded path back to yourself—one rooted in small choices, honest reflection, and the willingness to move at a pace that honors your capacity. Coming back to yourself isn’t about becoming someone new. It’s about returning to what has always been there.

Key Takeaways

• Disconnection can happen quietly. Burnout and overextension often pull you away from your needs without you realizing it.
• Reconnection starts with awareness. Noticing what feels off is the first step toward returning to yourself with honesty and care.
• Small, consistent choices rebuild trust. You don’t need a full reset—tiny, intentional shifts help you come back to yourself over time.

Episode Highlights

• 01:57 – How You Know You’ve Drifted From Yourself
• Kelley names the subtle signs of disconnection, including exhaustion, irritability, and feeling out of alignment with your own life.
• 05:21 – The Cost of Constant Overextension
• A reflection on how prioritizing others, productivity, or expectations can slowly erode your connection to your own needs.
• 09:18 – Relearning Your Own Voice
• Kelley explores the practice of tuning back into your preferences, boundaries, and internal cues after periods of disconnection.
• 13:46 – Returning to Yourself in Small Ways
• A gentle reminder that coming back to yourself happens through small, sustainable choices—not pressure or perfection.

A Gentle Invitation

If this episode resonated, choose one small way to come back to yourself this week. It might be resting when you’re tired, saying no without overexplaining, or simply pausing to ask, What do I need right now?

Listen to the full episode, share it with someone who may be feeling disconnected, and leave a review if this conversation supported you. Each step you take toward yourself creates more space for ease, clarity, and a life that feels like your own.

Support the Show

Like, share, and subscribe on all platforms, and find us on social media

@blackgirlburnout

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Stay in Touch

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It’s easy to believe you know what you want—more success, more money, more recognition, more stability. But sometimes those goals are inherited from pressure, expectation, or survival patterns rather than your true desires. In this episode, Kelley explores the practice of reverse engineering what you actually want by slowing down and examining the life you’re building.

This conversation invites you to move beyond autopilot ambition and reconnect with what genuinely brings you ease, alignment, and fulfillment. When you take the time to question the “why” behind your goals, you create space to pursue a life that reflects your values instead of external expectations.

Key Takeaways

• Not every goal is truly yours. Some ambitions are shaped by family expectations, cultural pressure, or survival patterns rather than your authentic desires.
• Clarity comes from reflection. When you pause and examine what your goals are meant to give you—peace, freedom, rest—you can make more aligned decisions.
• Reverse engineering creates intentional living. Starting with the feeling or life you want can help you design goals that actually support your wellbeing.

Episode Highlights

• 02:11 – Questioning the Goals You’ve Been Chasing
• Kelley introduces the idea that many of the goals we pursue are inherited from societal expectations rather than personal alignment.
• 05:48 – The Real Reason Behind Most Ambitions
• A deeper look at how many goals are actually attempts to access deeper needs like safety, peace, or freedom.
• 09:36 – Reverse Engineering the Life You Want
• Kelley walks through the practice of starting with the feeling you want to experience and working backward to design your choices.
• 14:22 – Giving Yourself Permission to Choose Differently
• A closing reflection on releasing pressure and allowing your goals to evolve as your values and capacity change.

A Gentle Invitation

If this episode resonated, take a few quiet minutes this week to reflect on one goal you’re currently pursuing. Ask yourself: What do I believe this goal will give me? Then consider whether there may be a simpler or more sustainable path to that feeling.

Listen to the full episode, share it with someone who may be navigating the same pressure, and leave a review if this conversation supported you. Each share helps grow a community where choosing ease, clarity, and sustainable ambition becomes possible.

Support the Show

Like, share, and subscribe on all platforms, and find us on social media

@blackgirlburnout

Subscribe to our newsletter: blackgirlburnout.com

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Stay in Touch

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Become a paid Substack subscriber ($5/month—the cost of a latte!) for exclusive resources to support your burnout-free life.

Our Sponsors

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Sometimes the things you want most—success, love, recognition, stability—can start to feel urgent. Not just important, but necessary for your survival. In this episode, Kelley explores how wanting more can quietly shift into something deeper: a trauma response shaped by pressure, scarcity, and the belief that you must constantly strive to be safe, valued, or enough.

This conversation gently invites you to slow down and examine the difference between healthy desire and survival-driven striving. When you understand the roots of urgency, you can begin to choose a pace that honors your nervous system, your boundaries, and your capacity for joy.

Key Takeaways

• Wanting can become a survival strategy. When your nervous system believes safety depends on achievement or validation, desire can shift into urgency and pressure.
• Scarcity thinking fuels burnout. The belief that you must constantly chase the next opportunity, relationship, or milestone keeps your body in a state of striving.
• Slowing down creates clarity. When you give yourself space to pause, you can begin to separate genuine desires from patterns rooted in fear or past wounds.

Episode Highlights

• 01:48 – When Wanting Stops Feeling Like a Choice
• Kelley explores how desire can move from a healthy aspiration into something that feels urgent and survival-driven.
• 05:32 – The Scarcity Mindset Behind Constant Striving
• A deeper look at how past experiences and cultural pressures can create the belief that opportunities, love, or success are always about to disappear.
• 09:47 – How Trauma Shapes the Way You Chase Goals
• Kelley discusses how unresolved wounds can influence ambition, relationships, and the pace at which you push yourself.
• 14:21 – Choosing Desire From a Place of Safety
• A reflection on how slowing down and honoring your nervous system can help you pursue what you want without exhaustion or pressure.

A Gentle Invitation

If this episode resonated, take a quiet moment this week to notice where urgency might be guiding your decisions. Ask yourself: Is this something I truly want, or something I feel I must chase to feel safe?

Listen to the full episode, share it with someone who may be navigating the same pressure, and leave a review if this conversation supported you. Each share helps grow a community where choosing ease, clarity, and sustainable ambition becomes possible.

Support the Show

Like, share, and subscribe on all platforms, and find us on social media

@blackgirlburnout

Subscribe to our newsletter: blackgirlburnout.com

Watch the episode on YouTube

Drop a review—help us spread the word that rest is not weakness.

Stay in Touch

Join our Substack family for weekly reflections, tools, and behind-the-scenes notes from Kelley.

Become a paid Substack subscriber ($5/month—the cost of a latte!) for exclusive resources to support your burnout-free life.

Our Sponsors

Check out PharmaNutra and use my code BGB for a great deal: https://pharmanutra-us.com

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Safety isn’t a number. It’s a nervous system state.

In this episode, Kelley explores why so many of us feel an urgent need to optimize — our bodies, our bank accounts, our productivity — and what’s really underneath that impulse. In a world that feels economically, politically, and emotionally unstable, it’s easy to believe that if we just earn more, look better, or stay busy enough, we’ll finally feel secure. But what if those behaviors aren’t ambition… they’re armor?

This conversation reframes the current obsession with leveling up, luxury, glow-ups, and side hustles as a nervous system response to instability. Kelley gently challenges the idea that safety can be bought, earned, or displayed — and offers a softer, more sustainable path: creating safety from the inside out.

Key Takeaways

• Safety is not a financial number, aesthetic achievement, or productivity milestone — it’s a nervous system state.
• There’s a difference between aspiration and avoidance. Aspiration asks “why?” Armor just keeps you moving.
• If what you’re chasing gives proof to others but not peace to you, it may be a defense mechanism — not a desire.

Episode Timestamps & Takeaways

00:00 – The Real Question Beneath the Hustle

Kelley opens with a powerful reframe: the question “How do I secure my life?” isn’t a planning question — it’s a safety question. This sets the foundation for the entire episode.

08:30 – The Rise of Symbolic Safety

From luxury TikTok to aesthetic optimization to side hustles, Kelley explores how we chase visible markers of success when structural safety feels unstable — and why those symbols can’t regulate our bodies.

16:00 – Aspiration vs. Armor

A defining moment in the episode: the difference between expansive desire and avoidance. Aspiration is curious and grounded. Armor is urgent and never satisfied.

27:00 – What Does Enough Feel Like?

Near the close, Kelley invites listeners to imagine what “enough” would feel like in their bodies — not in numbers, titles, or weight, but in breath, shoulders, and nervous system calm.

Your Soft Inventory

This week, pause before you chase the next thing — the new routine, the side hustle, the aesthetic upgrade, the financial goal — and ask:

• What do I think this will give me that I don’t have right now?
• Is this giving me peace… or proof?
• Will this create relief, ease, time, choice, or rest?

You don’t have to fix anything.

You don’t need another plan.

Just notice.

Because staying human is the work — and your nervous system deserves safety that doesn’t require performance.

Support the Show

Like, share, and subscribe on all platforms, and find us on social media

@blackgirlburnout

Subscribe to our newsletter: blackgirlburnout.com

Watch the episode on YouTube

Drop a review—help us spread the word that rest is not weakness.

Stay in Touch

Join our Substack family for weekly reflections, tools, and behind-the-scenes notes from Kelley.

Become a paid Substack subscriber ($5/month—the cost of a latte!) for exclusive resources to support your burnout-free life.

Our Sponsors

Check out PharmaNutra and use my code BGB for a great deal: https://pharmanutra-us.com

Check out Greater Than: https://www.drinkgt.com

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Softness isn’t sustained by intention alone — it requires structure. In this episode, Kelley moves beyond philosophy and shares the practical tools she personally uses when she feels burnout creeping in. From recognizing early warning signs like doom scrolling and “tweak loops,” to using nervous system regulation, phone blockers, routines, therapy, and healthy escapism, this conversation is about building support before collapse happens. Staying human is the work — and support is how we keep doing it.

Key Takeaways

• Burnout shows up in habits first. Pay attention to early signs like poor sleep, urgency without clarity, excessive revising, or physical symptoms.
• Nervous system regulation is a daily practice, not an emergency fix. Pausing, breathing, moving your body, and centering physical comfort interrupt spirals early.
• Structure protects softness. Phone blockers, routines, therapy, coaching apps, and healthy escapism create guardrails so you don’t rely on willpower alone.

Episode Highlights & Timestamps

00:02:19 – Burnout doesn’t always look dramatic: how habits become early warning signs

00:06:21 – The power of the pause: using “Let me get back to you” as nervous system regulation

00:16:16 – Why willpower fails under stress — and how external structure (like phone blockers and routines) protects softness

00:24:24 – Healthy escapism vs. numbing: how to tell the difference and why joy is protective

Gentle Invitation

This week, instead of waiting for collapse, notice your early signs.

What habit shows up when you’re overwhelmed? What good habit disappears?

Choose one small guardrail — maybe a 24-hour pause before saying yes, putting your phone in time-out for an hour, or anchoring your morning with one repeatable ritual. Not ten changes. Just one.

Build support around your softness.

Let that be enough for now.

Support the Show

Like, share, and subscribe on all platforms, and find us on social media

@blackgirlburnout

Subscribe to our newsletter: blackgirlburnout.com

Watch the episode on YouTube

Drop a review—help us spread the word that rest is not weakness.

Stay in Touch

Join our Substack family for weekly reflections, tools, and behind-the-scenes notes from Kelley.

Become a paid Substack subscriber ($5/month—the cost of a latte!) for exclusive resources to support your burnout-free life.

Our Sponsors

Check out PharmaNutra and use my code BGB for a great deal: https://pharmanutra-us.com

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Continuing the How to Soften Without Falling Apart series, this episode focuses on the boundaries required to protect your humanity in overwhelming times. Kelley explores why Black women are often conditioned to absorb pain, urgency, and responsibility—and how that leads to exhaustion and burnout. Through nervous-system-informed tools and practical language, she offers a new way forward: learning to respond without absorbing, care without carrying, and stay connected without overextending yourself.

Key Takeaways

• Compassion does not require absorption—you can care deeply without carrying what isn’t yours.
• Boundaries are not disconnection; they are how relationships, nervous systems, and softness stay sustainable.
• Responding with intention is more powerful—and healthier—than reacting with urgency.

Episode Highlights & Timestamps

• [01:13–02:30] “You Can Care Without Carrying” Kelley introduces the core reframe of the episode and names how global grief, personal responsibility, and constant exposure overwhelm the nervous system.
• [02:54–05:35] Absorbing vs. Responding A clear distinction between emotional absorption and intentional response—and why Black women are often socialized to confuse the two.
• [09:00–10:32] Nervous System Signals & Regulation How to recognize when you’re absorbing too much and simple, accessible ways to regulate before burnout sets in.
• [19:29–22:03] Media, Work, and Choosing Limits Why constant exposure to trauma isn’t care—and how limiting media and redefining urgency restores clarity, compassion, and capacity. 

A Gentle Invitation: Care Without Carrying

This week, notice one place where you may be absorbing more than you need to—whether it’s conversations, media, work urgency, or emotional labor. Choose one small boundary to practice: pausing before responding, limiting exposure, or naming a time limit with love. Boundaries aren’t about becoming cold—they’re how you stay human, compassionate, and connected for the long haul.

Support the Show

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@blackgirlburnout

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Stay in Touch

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Become a paid Substack subscriber ($5/month—the cost of a latte!) for exclusive resources to support your burnout-free life.

Our Sponsors

Check out PharmaNutra and use my code BGB for a great deal: https://pharmanutra-us.com

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In this episode of Black Girl Burnout, Kelley names what many of us are living through: the world is still loud, uncertain, and heavy—and there is no clean “after” yet. Instead of focusing on who we’ll become once things settle, this conversation centers on who we are while things are still on fire. Kelley explores how survival mode can quietly become an identity, what we lose when that happens, and why softness isn’t a luxury reserved for easier times. This episode offers a grounded, realistic path toward staying human, gentle, and connected to yourself—even in the middle of crisis.

Key Takeaways

• Survival mode is a strategy, not your personality—and staying in it too long can cost you parts of yourself that matter.
• Softness doesn’t require perfect conditions; it can help you pace yourself, care for your body, and choose what you carry.
• Protecting your identity in hard times is often quiet, personal work—but it’s essential for long-term sustainability.

Episode Highlights & Timestamps

• [00:00–01:40] Living While Things Are Still Hard
• Kelley reframes the conversation away from “after the crisis” and toward how to remain human, soft, and connected to yourself while the world is still unsettled.
• [02:08–05:43] When Survival Mode Becomes an Identity
• A clear breakdown of how survival mode works, why it’s protective, and what happens when it starts shaping behavior—and eventually, identity.
• [06:09–08:48] Softness Without Delusion
• Kelley explains how softness can coexist with awareness, regulation, and discernment—offering a version of gentleness that doesn’t deny reality.
• [15:30–17:29] Building a Life Quietly
• A powerful reflection on resisting urgency, hustle, and constant reinvention—and why choosing softness and stability leads to a more sustainable life.

A Gentle Invitation: Choosing Yourself, Even Now

Take a few quiet moments this week to reflect on three things:

1. What values matter to you no matter how hard things get?
2. What parts of yourself do you refuse to harden or lose?
3. What small, realistic activities help you feel like you, even briefly?

Write them down. Choose one act of softness—music, rest, beauty, laughter, gentleness—and take it seriously. You don’t need permission to care for yourself while things are still messy. Staying human is not something you wait for—it’s something you practice.

Support the Show

Like, share, and subscribe on all platforms, and find us on social media

@blackgirlburnout

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Stay in Touch

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Become a paid Substack subscriber ($5/month—the cost of a latte!) for exclusive resources to support your burnout-free life.

Our Sponsors

Check out PharmaNutra and use my code BGB for a great deal: https://pharmanutra-us.com

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In this episode, Kelley explores why softness is not collapse or avoidance—but a survival strategy in hard times. As the world feels increasingly heavy, she reframes softness as discernment, protection, and a way to stay human without disappearing. Through personal reflection and practical examples, Kelley invites listeners to release constant bracing and reconnect with their bodies, boundaries, and choices. This episode is a reminder that tenderness is not a liability—it’s how we endure with our humanity intact.

Key Takeaways

• Softness is not weakness—it’s an embodied way of staying present and human in the face of prolonged stress and uncertainty.
• Armoring yourself isn’t sustainable; long-term hardness shrinks empathy, imagination, and joy.
• Softness gives you choices—what to take in, what can wait, and what is (and is not) yours to carry.

Episode Highlights & Timestamps

• 00:00–03:08 — Why prioritizing softness can feel unrealistic right now—and why it matters more than ever
• 04:00–07:28 — Letting go of survival-mode “warrior” identity and redefining strength
• 08:00–09:00 — Softness as protection: discernment, nervous system flexibility, and choice
• 10:35–14:54 — Practical tools: checking your “battery,” releasing what can wait, and putting down what isn’t yours

A Gentle Invitation to Apply This Episode

Today, pause and ask yourself one soft, honest question: “What is my capacity right now?”

If you’re running low, give yourself permission to take in less—less news, less emotional labor, less urgency. If you have more energy, choose one thing to engage with intentionally, not reflexively. Softness doesn’t require fixing your whole life—it begins with one moment of discernment, one boundary, one small release of tension. Let that be enough for today.

Support the Show

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Our Sponsors

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In this episode, Kelley reframes burnout as a response to systems that demand too much—not a personal failure or character flaw. She explores why we internalize stress, how self-betrayal becomes normalized, and what it looks like to support yourself without overriding your body’s needs. You’ll learn how to build support, rhythm, and minimal mindfulness practices that help you stay human in a world that keeps asking for more.

Key Takeaways

• Burnout is not a personal failure—it’s often the result of long-term systems stress that forces self-betrayal.
• True support includes who you’re around, what you consume, and whether those things calm or dysregulate your nervous system.
• Small, consistent rhythms and minimal mindfulness practices can help your body exhale—even in uncertain times.

Episode Highlights & Timestamps (4)

1. 00:00 – Why “Nothing Is Wrong With You” Needs to Be Said Out Loud: Naming burnout as a normal response to abnormal conditions.
2. 02:45 – Burnout as Self-Betrayal, Not Weakness: How systems failure becomes personal harm—and why that matters.
3. 05:20 – Redefining Support: People, Media, and Nervous System Safety: Learning to choose relationships and content that feel like a homecoming.
4. 11:00 – Rhythm, Systems, and Minimal Mindfulness: Simple practices that give your nervous system something steady to return to.

When the World Feels Like Too Much, Try This

After listening, take a quiet moment to ask yourself: What in my life feels nourishing—and what feels depleting? Choose one small shift this week—whether it’s a boundary, a pause, or a grounding practice—that helps your body feel a little safer and more at home.

No fixing. No rushing. Just care.

Support the Show

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Become a paid Substack subscriber ($5/month—the cost of a latte!) for exclusive resources to support your burnout-free life.

Our Sponsors

Check out PharmaNutra and use my code BGB for a great deal: https://pharmanutra-us.com

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