Coaching for Leaders

Marshall Goldsmith: What Got You Here Won’t Get You There

Marshall Goldsmith is one of the world’s leading executive coaches. He's written 56 books, selling over 3 million copies, including 8 bestsellers and 4 New York Times bestsellers. He's been ranked twice by Thinkers50 as the #1 leadership thinker in the world and ranked the #1 executive coach in the world for over a decade.

Marshall’s most popular book is What Got You Here Won't Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful*. In this episode, Marshall and I explore the key lessons from this iconic book and the most common habits that hold leaders back.

Key Points

The superstition trap: I behave this way and I am successful, therefore I am successful because I behave this way.

The higher you go, the more your problems are behavioral.

Winning too much is a trap for successful people. Ask yourself, “Is it worth it?”

Be aware that your suggestions become orders.

Avoid starting your responses with “no,” “but,” or “however.” It’s hard to hear things we already know.

We are not here on Earth to prove how smart we are. Help more, judge less.

We all reinforce people who reinforce us. We hate obvious suck-ups, but not the good ones. The good suck-ups can easily fool the best leaders.

Beware an excessive need to “be me.” Instead, be who you want and need to be.

Resources Mentioned

What Got You Here Won't Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful* by Marshall Goldsmith

MarshallGoldsmith.ai

Interview Notes

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Mary Murphy: Cultures of Growth

Mary Murphy is Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Indiana University. She is also Founding Director of the Summer Institute on Diversity at the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University and founder and CEO of the Equity Accelerator, a research and consulting organization that works with schools and companies to create more equitable learning and working environments. She is the author of Cultures of Growth: How the New Science of Mindset Can Transform Individuals, Teams, and Organizations*.

Many of us have heard the distinction between a fixed and a growth mindset. Turns out it’s more of a both/and, especially with our teams. In this conversation, Mary and I discuss how team collaboration can support a growth mindset.

Key Points

Nobody has only a fixed or a growth mindset. While we may favor one, all of us shift between them.

Team culture is so powerful that it can either block or encourage a growth mindset.

Mindset doesn't just affect perceptions and behaviors, it shapes the bottom line.

To support collaboration, begin with a cues audit. Consider starting with affinity groups.

It’s misperception that cultures of growth are less data-centric than cultures of genius. The opposite is actually true.

Don’t eliminate competition, recast it. Consider how incentives align with supporting others and the organization as a whole.

Yes, share outcomes -- and also include the distance traveled to achieve them. This supports a culture of growth.

Traditional rating systems, especially forced-rankings, often reinforce cultures of genius.

Resources Mentioned

Cultures of Growth: How the New Science of Mindset Can Transform Individuals, Teams, and Organizations* by Mary Murphy

Culture Cues Assessment

Interview Notes

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Growth Mindset Helps You Rise From the Ashes, with Jeff Hittenberger (episode 326)

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Maureen Dunne: The Neurodiversity Edge

Maureen Dunne is a cognitive scientist, neurodiversity expert, global keynote speaker, board director, and business leader with over two decades of experience helping organizations build thriving cultures. She has served as a Senior Advisor to some of the world's top organization, including the LEGO Foundation, Cornell University, and Members of Congress. She is the author of The Neurodiversity Edge: The Essential Guide to Embracing Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, and Other Neurological Differences for Any Organization*.

We often don’t notice our deeply held biases — and there’s certainly bias against neurodiversity. In this conversation, Maureen and I discuss the research, mindsets, and contributions relevant to neurodiversity. Plus, how neurodiversity can provide an edge for almost every organization.

Key Points

We often don’t see our deeply held biases. As one example, we assume that north is “up” on maps and globes, even though that’s only a construct.

Research and estimates vary, but at least 20% of the population is neurodivergent.

Divergent bees in hives find new sources of honey. Instead of viewing neurodivergence from a deficit-based perspective, use a strengths-based approach.

Intellectual capability is entirely independent of having a neurodivergent profile.

Rather than maintaining accommodations for “quirky people,” move towards a norm of universal accommodations that benefit the entire employee population.

Resources Mentioned

The Neurodiversity Edge: The Essential Guide to Embracing Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, and Other Neurological Differences for Any Organization* by Maureen Dunne

Interview Notes

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James Rhee: Red Helicopter

James Rhee is a former high school teacher and Harvard Law School graduate who became a private equity investor and unexpectedly an acclaimed CEO. He bridges math with emotions by marrying capital with purpose, while composing systems that bridge peoples, disciplines, and ideas. James is the author of Red Helicopter: Lead Change With Kindness (Plus a Little Math)*.

Bad news: leaders are often the ones who make the rules that prevent kindness. Good news: leaders are also the ones who can change the rules. In this conversation, James and I explore how leadership (and results) improve when kindness is at the center of our work.

Key Points

We all know the power of intuitive, childhood truths. Leaders should champion these, even if that means challenging the establishment.

Brené Brown says, “Clear is kind.” Clarity emerges by also ensuring an alignment with reality by leveraging math.

Kindness is not random or entertaining. It’s an intentional, consistent practice.

Leaders make the rules that encumber kindness — and they have the capacity to change those rules.

The cost centers of an organization are a creative opportunity for kindness.

Resources Mentioned

Red Helicopter: Lead Change With Kindness (Plus a Little Math)* by James Rhee

Arirang Amazing Grace for a Red Helicopter

Interview Notes

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Lisa Cummings: Lead Through Strengths

Lisa Cummings is the founder of Lead Through Strengths, a firm supporting building strengths into your team's culture. She's also the host of the Lead Through Strengths podcast. Lisa is a Gallup-certified strengths coach and has trained over 20,000 people in 14 countries. Today, she facilitates offsites and retreats to help leaders and their teams go deep on utilizing their strengths well.

When challenges arise in leadership, we sometimes miss what’s right in front of us. In this conversation, Lisa and I discuss how to zero in on your core strengths and utilize them to address new challenges that arise.

Key Points

Lisa began her StrengthsFinder journey through the First Break All the Rules book. Dave began his with the Soar With Your Strengths book.

Many of us value what we’ve worked hardest to achieve, but those areas aren’t typically our core strengths.

The talents appearing on the bottom of your StrengthsFinder assessment are the approaches that tend to drain you and lead to burnout.

It’s helpful to focus on removing blind spots. Those are most often hidden in our top strengths.

When new leadership issues come up, aim your top strengths at them. Often, there’s an opportunity to reframe challenges in the context of your strengths.

Resources Mentioned

CliftonStrengths (formerly StrengthsFinder) assessment

StrengthsFinder Talents overview by Lisa Cummings

Contact Lisa for a question or workshop

Related Episodes

How Teams Use StrengthsFinder Results, with Lisa Cummings (episode 293)

Craft a Career to Fit Your Strengths, with Scott Anthony Barlow (episode 424)

Bringing Your Strengths to a Big Job, with General CQ Brown, Jr. (episode 691)

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General CQ Brown, Jr.: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs

General CQ Brown, Jr. is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nation’s highest-ranking military officer. As Chairman, he is the principal military advisor to the President of the United States, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Council. Prior to this role, he was the first Black officer in American history to head one of our military branches as Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force. Time Magazine has named him one of the top 100 most influential people in the world.

Effective leaders discover how to best use their strengths, and of course, champion the strengths of others. In this conversation, General Brown and I discuss how he uses his strengths and what he does to bring those strengths into people development, high-level meetings, and problem-solving.

Key Points

If you are well below average at something, don’t spend time and effort trying to improve. Instead, partner with others who have it as a superpower.

Give people work that is aligned with their strengths.

Fight for feedback, especially in a top job. Find people who will give it to you straight. Listen well so they keep offering it.

Leverage your strengths in communication. For General Brown, using his engineering training to solve problems and using metaphors and analogies to create clarity.

Have the meeting after the meeting in the meeting.

Tell people where your strengths might get in the way. For General Brown, highlighting that silence that could appear intimidating is often him just listening and thinking.

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Mitch Warner: Leadership and Self-Deception

Mitch Warner is a managing partner of the Arbinger Institute. The Institute has authored three best-selling books and helps leaders transform their organizations by enabling the fundamental shift in mindset that leads to exceptional results. Now in its fourth edition, Leadership and Self-Deception: The Secret to Transforming Relationships & Unleashing Results*, is today one of the top fifty best-selling leadership books of all time.

Shifting behavior in a sustainable way requires us to change our mindset. In this conversation, Mitch and I explore how self-deception gets in our way and how we can take the first step by seeing others as people.

Key Points

In many cases, we are the carriers of the very problems we are complaining about. We often resist this reality.

We often assume we aren’t the cause of problems because of our good intentions.

Mindset drives our behaviors and the effectiveness and influence of those behaviors.

Seeing someone as less than a person causes us to see the world in a way that justifies our judgement.

Too often, conflicts manifest as people provoking another’s behavior in order to justify themselves.

Our own justification is an indicator that we may be wrong to begin with.

Viewing others as either better or worse than ourselves creates justification that prevents awareness and change.

Get outside of yourself by meeting to learn about them. If the relationship has been strained, consider meeting to give.

Resources Mentioned

Leadership and Self-Deception: The Secret to Transforming Relationships & Unleashing Results* by The Arbinger Institute

The Arbinger Institute

Interview Notes

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José Antonio Bowen: Teaching With AI

José Antonio Bowen has won teaching awards at Stanford and Georgetown and is past president of Goucher College. He has written over 100 scholarly articles and has appeared as a musician with Stan Getz, Bobby McFerrin, and others. He is the author of multiple books in higher education and is a senior fellow for the American Association of Colleges and Universities. He is the author with C. Edward Watson of Teaching With AI: A Practical Guide to a New Era of Human Learning*.

AI will change how we work, but it’s also going to change how we think. In this conversation, José and I explore where to begin working with AI and why those who can use it will serve a critical role in shaping what’s next.

Key Points

Physical maps make you smarter than GPS, but GPS is more practical for daily use. AI isn’t inherently good or bad, but like the internet, it will change how we work.

AI will eliminate some jobs, but it will change every job. Those who can work with AI will replace those who can’t.

Rather than thinking about creativity through the lens of responses from AI, focus on bringing creativity into your prompts.

Most of the AI progress for companies is coming from non-tech folks that are figuring out how specific tasks get more efficient.

AI is very good at some things and not good at others. You’ll discover how this relates to your work by experimenting with different prompts.

Resources Mentioned

Teaching With AI: A Practical Guide to a New Era of Human Learning* by José Antonio Bowen and C. Edward Watson

Example AI Prompts by José Antonio Bowen

The Human Side of Generative AI: Creating a Path to Productivity by Aaron De Smet, Sandra Durth, Bryan Hancock, Marino Mugayar-Baldocchi, and Angelika Reich

Moderna and OpenAI partner to Accelerate the Development of Life-Saving Treatments

The State of AI in Early 2024: Gen AI Adoption Spikes and Starts to Generate Value by Alex Singla, Alexander Sukharevsky, Lareina Yee, Michael Chui, and Bryce Hall

Interview Notes

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Will Guidara: Unreasonable Hospitality

Will Guidara is the former co-owner of Eleven Madison Park, which under his leadership received four stars from the New York Times, three Michelin stars, and in 2017 was named #1 on the list of the World’s 50 Best Restaurants. He has co-authored four cookbooks, was named one of Crain's New York Business's 40 Under 40, and is the recipient of WSJ Magazine's Innovator Award. He is the author of Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect*.

We expect hospitality from a restaurant or hotel, but we often miss opportunities for this mindset at work. In this conversation, Will and I discuss effective leadership as an act of hospitality, not only for the organization and team — but for the leader themselves.

Key Points

Service is black and white. Hospitality is color.

Hospitality elevates service not only for the person receiving it, but for the person delivering it.

Hospitality is a dialogue, not a monologue. With employees, this means giving feedback continuously.

When offering criticism, make a charitable assumption. The message is still the message, but the context matters.

Giving attention to your top performers does a lot to invest others in their work.

Make it cool to care.

Resources Mentioned

Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect* by Will Guidara

Interview Notes

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Roy Schwartz: Smart Brevity

Roy Schwartz is co-founder and CEO at Axios HQ, the world’s first AI-powered internal communications management platform. He’s also the co-founder of Axios, the award-winning news organization known for its Smart Brevity writing style. He's the co-author, along with Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen of Smart Brevity: The Power of Saying More With Less*.

Most organizations spend way more time and strategy on external communications than internal ones. In this conversation, Roy and I discuss how your internal strategy can reduce email, save time, and create space for innovation and insight.

Key Points

An effective, internal publication via email reduces the amount of total messaging people receive.

Position one, big item in every publication. There should be a hierarchy of what’s important, since not everyone will read everything.

Keep each topic to 200 words and under 1,000 words for the entire publication.

For each topic, start with a strong, first sentence — and then provide context for why it matters.

Find a word other than “newsletter” to name a regular, internal publication.

Bring personality and smiles into internal publications. People will engage and look forward to reading.

Done well, internal publications help inform, recognize, provide accountability, and allow leaders to focus on the human aspects of communication.

Resources Mentioned

Smart Brevity: The Power of Saying More With Less* by Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen, and Roy Schwartz

Axios HQ: AI-powered newsletter software

Interview Notes

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