Everything Happens with Kate Bowler

What do we do when our families are sources of pain, confusion, or harm? How do we (or can we) outgrow our complicated childhoods when we no longer need the defenses we created?

Today, I am speaking with Tara Westover. Tara earned her PhD in history from Cambridge, which is incredible on its own, but particularly when you remember that she had never stepped foot in a classroom until she was 17. She is the author of the bestselling memoir EDUCATED which describes growing up in a survivalist family and her costly pursuit of learning and unlearning. 

In this conversation, Kate and Tara discuss: 

• How to navigate the religious baggage of our childhoods
• Learning to hold people’s point of views but without letting go of your own
• Why people aren’t always doing their best (and why knowing that helps restore some dignity)
• How to approach people who have different worldviews than us 
• How to outgrow the defenses we develop as kids in painful or abusive homes

CW: physical, emotional, and spiritual abuse

***

Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to our weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our culture seems convinced that going off-script is unbecoming. Instead, we are rewarded for being buttoned up, perfect (or at least appearing to be), and never ever no-matter-what admit weakness. But… don’t we need each other, especially when facing the most difficult moments? 

Author and Death, Sex, and Money podcast host Anna Sale leans into every hard conversation no matter how difficult the topic. In this conversation, Kate and Anna discuss:

• How conversations might engender the intimacy we need to get by
• Fostering the right interpersonal and listening skills it takes to approach a difficult topic (especially when you’re feeling nervous)
• Best practices for responding to someone’s hard news
• How learning to listen might bridge differences of all kinds

What do we lose when we don’t talk about hard things? And what might we gain if we do?

***

Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to our weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We often have very romantic expectations about parenthood. Parenthood is about a mythical child who will be perfect in a way we haven’t quite put our finger on, and the journey to love them will teach us something reasonably easy about ourselves. But what if we are not the parents we thought we’d be? Or our kids are not the kids we thought we’d have.

Writer Cammie McGovern’s oldest son, Ethan, was diagnosed with autism as a small child. Soon though, he was not just a toddler learning how to play or a child needing adjustments in the classroom. He is an adult who wants to participate in the world, and Cammie is still determined to learn what it means to be an advocate for him and others living with disabilities as they enter adulthood. 

In this conversation, Kate and Cammie discuss:

• The myths parents of children with autism might face
• How to build inclusive communities (and how both parties might benefit from them)
• How the role of every parent is to discover their kid for the mystery and wonder they are
• Why parenting shouldn’t always be about becoming heroes or martyrs and how we might need communities and systems that better support our needs

This heartwarming conversation covers everything from love to policy and everything in between, as Cammie describes her son and his future.

***

Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to our weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

Join us for Lent. Receive a free lenten reflection guide, here.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bestselling author Mitch Albom was at the height of his career when his favorite professor was dying. Mitch then spent his Tuesdays with Morrie—conversations that would change the trajectory of his life and career. Mitch continues to walk right up to the edge with the complicated questions around grief, loss, and hope in his books and charitable work. 

In this conversation, Kate and Mitch discuss:

• Why the loss of a child feels so different than the loss of someone farther along in years
• What questions we ask of God when we encounter death (and why we might not get the answers we hope for)
• How we might count our somethings (our people, our blessings) without imagining that God is teaching us “a lesson” 

CW: ALS, death of a child with a brain tumor

***

Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to our weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

Join us for Lent. Receive a free lenten reflection guide, here.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bestselling novelist Ann Patchett knows how to walk right up to the edge with people she loves. She is the friend who sits with you during chemo, or lets you spill your secrets in the car. She shares what powerful lessons she learned early on about how to approach suffering with humility, knowing you can rarely change a life, but you can be there to witness and be amazed.

In this episode, Kate and Ann discuss:

• Why no one cares what you write about (and why that should give you freedom) 
• How to bear witness to someone’s life—even when you can’t change their circumstances
• Why the question of the fullness of a life isn’t how long you live but something else entirely

CW: addiction, death of friends, cancer

***

Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to our weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

Join us for Lent. Receive a free lenten reflection guide, here.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Everyone loves to get VERY BOSSY when it comes to our fears. “Don’t worry, be happy!” Just be brave! But maybe ‘being brave’ doesn’t mean ignoring our fears but living alongside them. After all, we live in a world that offers us few guarantees, don’t we? 

Writer Taylor Harris has dealt with severe anxiety since she was a child. But when she became a mom, she had to learn to hold her fears alongside her love, especially when her son has an unsolvable illness.

In this conversation, Kate and Taylor discuss:

• Balancing fear with love 
• What it means to be brave in a world that is so unsafe (and how to parent kids you can’t protect from everything)
• How to live in the uncertainty of a non-diagnosis
• How to make sense of God and faith without guarantees that things will work out  

This conversation will give you courage to hold both your faith and fear, hope and disappointment, especially when we don’t have problems with simple solutions.

CW: a sick child without a diagnosis

***

Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to our weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

Join us for Lent. Receive a free lenten reflection guide, here.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Author and priest Liz Tichenor lost her mom and her baby in the same year. Brand new to leading a church and reeling from the grief, the pain was enough to break her. But it didn’t—because other people carried her through. 

In this conversation, Kate and Liz discuss:

• How in the thick of tragedy we need the church and shared rituals of grief
• How to be faithful and authentic when going through the “unimaginable” 
• The courage it takes to show up for another in the midst of their worst days (and why we are called to do so… no matter how uncomfortable) 
• Why Lent is the season for the brokenhearted

This episode will restore your hope for communities of faith that can show up for our most tender moments. 

CW: suicide, death of a child

***

Find Kate on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to our weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

Join us for Lent. Receive a free lenten reflection guide, here.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Poet Kate Baer found herself inundated with the demands of motherhood and little time to write. Nothing was easy and then, at a breaking point, it felt impossible. If she wanted a creative life, she was going to have to redefine “perfection” (perfect mom! perfect woman!) and learn to tolerate a lot more imperfection instead.  

On this episode of Kate & Kate, they discuss:

• How friendships give permission to speak honestly (and why your friendships are actually important)
• Why not every experience (motherhood, marriage) is “fulfilling”
• How they each went off-script to find meaning
• Kate Baer’s great love for Panera Bread

CW: postpartum depression

***

Find me on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to my weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

Join us for Lent. Receive a free lenten reflection guide, here.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I do not imagine that I will settle centuries of debate about just how good we are, except that I believe that it is somewhere between two poles: everything and nothing. Perfection is impossible, but transformation isn’t. We can change a bit, if we really want to. This is the choice embedded in every day, the moment we wake up. We will have to find enough momentum to reach for a life that is never perfect, but good enough. 

Jessica Richie, my executive producer and co-writer and co-dreamer of this podcast, started just SAYING THAT. GOOD ENOUGH. Which made us laugh. So we said it again. Good Enough became a little permission slip for us. A little shrug that takes us off the hook for perfection and reminds us that we are human. Again today. Inside fragile bodies and contingent relationships and a whole web of love. 

Good Enough: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection is available now wherever books are sold.

And as a little treat for you, here is an excerpt from the audiobook, read by yours truly. It’s a little something my grandpa taught me about what it means to be content… and how contentment might look different for all of us.

***

Find me on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to my weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Join us for Lent. Receive a free lenten reflection guide, here.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Rick Mercer didn’t exactly know he was allowed to be proud. As a teenager, he was barely making it through high school and traveling the island province of Newfoundland, Canada, as the sidekick to a kindly clown. But being an outsider gave him a unique perspective. His razor wit, biting political commentary, and celebration of small town dreams would make him one of Canada’s most beloved voices. 

Together, Kate and Rick talk about:

• Their shared love of being Canadian (and why the Meech Lake Accord was so funny)
• The rather unhelpful suggestions people offer one another
• Why it feels so good to be proud of people doing what they love

This episode is sure to make you laugh (even if the Canadian references go over your head) and feel proud to be where you’re from—no matter how obscure. 

CW: spicy language, negative perceptions of coming out 

***

Find me on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter.

Be sure to subscribe to my weekly email for bits of wisdom, prayers, free downloads, and more.

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold. Order your copy, today.

Join us for Lent. Receive a free lenten reflection guide, here.

Introducing, GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Pre-order your copy, here.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.