Ex-it Strategy

We talk about how we are excited to be getting vaccines and people are starting to come back into the office.

Will McGlone is a good friend of Jen's and is the guest on the show. We talk a little about college-years and how Jen and Will became friends at ECU.

We are excited to talk to Will about his experience and remembrance of his parent's divorce during his childhood now that he is grown up and has a wife and children of his own. Will's parents got divorced when he was five years old.  

Many people think that the kids don't know what going on when mom and dad are fighting all the time, but we believe the kids know.

Will talks about how his parents told him they were going to get a separation and we share the stories of when our parent's told us as well.

Custody can be one of the hardest things to understand as a child and is often misunderstood from the child's perspective. It is difficult when one of the parents moves states away and it changes the dynamic of the relationship.

One thing that seems to be a unifier in stories of divorce is the desire for the children of divorce to raise their kids in a different kind of environment. 

With the benefit of age and hindsight, we discuss whether or not we wish our parents would have stayed together. Also, we share advice for the parents going through a divorce about important things kids need to hear during separation and divorce. 

We know it may feel difficult or impossible right now but kids are resilient and they will be okay in the long run. 

The benefit of Premarital Legal counseling is that we would just tell you what happens, for example, if you open a joint bank account or you keep your money separate, or you inherit a million dollars from your grandfather? So marriage and of itself is legally recognized by the state. It is under the realm of law. So why not understand the laws that have to do with marriage? 

This is different than premarital counseling in that it is not designed to help you uncover and process emotions.  

Do you understand how the laws work around property in North Carolina? What about credit card debt? This can be very eye-opening for couples and help facilitate important conversations that many young couples may not think to have before tying the knot.  

Many couples assume that their money in their 401K is theirs alone and in the event of a divorce they keep it all, or their money is in a separate bank account so they wouldn't need to share it. This is incorrect. What about debt from college? What about credit card debt? What about a family inheritance? The answers may surprise you.

These are important conversations to have before marriage.

Once you get married you have a fiduciary duty to your spouse, we unpack what that means.

We also talk about issues surrounding privacy and access to accounts, knowledge of passwords, and locked phones. You should be aware of where your accounts are, your bank, mortgage company, etc. Privacy is another conversation best facilitated before problems arise and can be another component of Premarital Legal Counseling.

A simple conversation about budgeting, how you want to budget, what your financial goals are can be very beneficial to engaged couples.

There is a good chance if you get divorced and have children that step-parents will be a part of your future. It's not all bad, but emotions can run high.

We prefer the word bonus-parent instead of step-parent. 

We discuss the story from E-News about Kate Hudson and their podcast called Sibling Revelry where they talk about the drama surrounding the stepbrothers and sisters and step-parents in their lives.
 
We answer many of the common questions that we hear as attorneys about step-parents. If the child is safe most courts are going to encourage building a relationship with their bonus family. Even though emotions about it may run hot, we encourage people to get counseling and focus on co-parenting.

When do people introduce children to a possible new spouse. We talk about the options and offer our insights.

In the majority of our cases when step-parents come into the picture it's a good thing.

We talk about TPR, which is the termination of parental rights and how that will lead to step-parent adoptions. These cases can be some of the most meaningful cases for our attorneys. We don't get a lot of happy days in court but step-parent adoptions are very special. 

Social media. We love to hate it. On average people are spending hours every day on social media. 

Some of the ways social media can change our lives:

• Social media is distracting us from actually spending time with one another.
• The ability to stalk each other.
• We are oversharing.
• We are more likely to become addicted to attention.
• Focusing on strangers' lives rather than our own.
• Jumping to conclusions.

We put our best lives on social media but nobody knows what's behind those pictures.

Dating apps and social media have made it easier to immediately connect with someone. This could lead to us looking for something new and better instead of working on existing relationships. 

After the demise of a relationship, what should you know about your social media accounts? Simply put, don't be dumb. Use common sense when posting about old and new relationships because it is likely that information could be used against you in your divorce and separation.

Judges don't like people blasting their ex on social media. Not to mention your child or your child's friends' parents can find your dirty laundry you air on social media.

We talk about how this generation was given the advice to not post a picture of yourself having a beer on social media and now a bunch of people from the previous generation was posting selfies in the nation's capital during the siege. Facebook is the number one source for online divorce evidence. 

Here is a simple list of DON'Ts for your social media during your separation and divorce:

• Don't forget to change your passwords
• Don't take selfie's at the courthouse
• Don't badmouth your former spouse
• Don't badmouth the judge
• Don't allow yourself to be tagged inappropriate photos
• Don't post anything you wouldn't want to be read on the stand
• Don't use your friends as a social media spy
• Don't forget to disconnect clouded services so your texts and photos don't show up on your ex's device.
• Don't lie to your attorney about what's out there

1 in 3 divorces starts as an online affair. 25% of couples fight about Facebook at least once per week. 30% of Tinder users are married. Less than half of people confront their spouses about what they discover online. 

The ruling is on the domestic violence protective order. You have to allege certain relationship statuses to have standing to really move for this under our current statutes. 

Currently, you have to show that you are spouses or former spouses to get a domestic violence protective order.  Or that you are persons of the opposite sex who are not married, but had lived together or currently live together, that you have a child in common or a parent and child or grandparent-grandchild relationship.  

Those words "opposite sex" are in our statute. You could not, before this case came down, if you were in a same-sex relationship, seek a domestic violence protective order. Until this came down we were the only state in the country that did not provide equal protection for people who are in a same-sex relationship. 

At the trial court level, the plaintiff, the person asking for the protective order went to the domestic violence court in Wake County and asked for this. And the judge said these facts are egregious. This is awful what happened. And where had you been in an Opposite sex relationship you would get a protective order, but since you are not, I cannot find that domestic violence occurred because the statute does not afford that to you. And then that was appealed to the court of appeals, which is where we got our recent order from thankfully. 

If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship what are some resources/options for them?

• Reach out to Interact of Wake County
• Talk to a friend or loved one that you trust and make a plan to get out of that relationship
• Talk to an attorney

Back in the day, we had the tender years doctrine that if you had a small child that the mother stayed home for most of it. That played into many custody decisions. The roles of men and women in marriage have changed a lot in the past 50 years. The current law says there is no preference one way or another. 

Although most of the cases we try are boobs versus dudes, there are cases where it's dudes versus dudes or boobs versus boobs... 

While we empathize with parents who are living in a new normal where they don't get to see their child as often as they would like because of divorce, it's not always the case anymore that custody goes to the mother. Many fathers step up and that's what we want to see because it is often in the best interest of the children.

Just because dad hasn't done it, doesn't mean he can't or doesn't deserve a chance to try.  

Most cases in wake county start at 50-50 custody agreement with no preference. 

You can't take a 100% household and divide it into two 100% houses. There will need to be a compromise. 

We discuss the difference between temporary and permanent custody orders. 

We talk about nesting, where the kids stay in the same house and mom and dad rotate into that home. 

We talk about how sometimes in a courtroom the judge will admonish the parents for being vindictive or not putting the best interest of the kids ahead of their personal feelings. 

We talk about the current news of Kelly Clarkson's divorce who was recently awarded primary physical custody due to trust issues between the parties and there being conflict. 
 

MYTH #1 - Prenups are only for the rich and famous

Prenups are like insurance for your marriage, never think about divorce when you are getting married but it happens. You don't necessarily have to have wealth at the time you are married but you should have a plan for the wealth you may acquire.  

MYTH #2 - Most divorces are nasty drawn-out battles in court

Most? No. Some? Yes. Many people are able to discuss things, have an agreement, and can be simple. 

MYTH #3 - If your spouse cheats on you, you will get primary custody of the children

False. The worst husband can be the best father and the worst wife can be the best mother. The only time it will come into play is if your spouse developed a relationship with someone who is not a good person to be around the kids. This could be alcohol or drug problems, etc.

MYTH #4 - There has to be someone at fault to be able to get a divorce in North Carolina

We are a no-fault divorce state, you have to be separated for a year and a day and only one of you has to have the intent to be separated. 

MYTH #5 - Divorce without kids are easier

It is not necessarily easier without kids. Pain is pain. Hurt is hurt. There are a lot of different aspects to separation and divorce and you can't necessarily compare yourself with other people.

MYTH #6 - You have to file "separation papers" in order to file for divorce

If you walk out the door with the intent to be separated permanently, you are legally separated and the year and one-day timer start ticking. It does not have anything to do with property, kids, or spousal support. You are separated for all intents and purposes, whether that person wants to be or not, you do not have to be served with anything.

MYTH #7 - I can't move out without an agreement in place because that is abandonment

It is and it isn't. Most of the time it is not. We unpack the differences in our discussion.

MYTH #8 - If we have equal custody, there won't be child support.

In theory that can be true, but it is more than custody time that is taken into consideration. If he makes $150K and she makes $30K then there will likely be child support. This is calculated on guidelines. 

MYTH #9 - We've only been married a short time, we need an annulment.

Annulments are rare. Things like illegal marriages, incest, fraud, bigamy, mental disease, and impotence but not the short amount of time many people believe is an option. There may be looser laws in Vegas, but in North Carolina, if you are married for a week, you need to be separated for a year before you can get a divorce. 

MYTH #10 - I can't get a divorce because my spouse won't agree to it or sign

It just takes one person to not want to be married. The sheriff will take them their papers.

MYTH #11 - My ex will sign his or her parental rights away

This is not possible. You can relinquish your rights, but there has to be a termination proceeding against you. And that has to be legitimate, you can't just file it or sign a paper.  

MYTH #12 - Even though we are separated, my spouse is sleeping with someone else... That's an affair, right?

Legally that's correct, but mostly it is not. It is not a law that is often enforced. We cannot legally recommend that you commit an antiquated crime. 

Many people usually think family law attorneys are female. Chris talks through his experiences practicing in a small town to now practicing in Raleigh. Chris has been practicing law for 10 years and is originally from Benson NC.

We discuss the differences in family law courts in rural counties and city counties. Especially in regards to standard visitations. Judges are limited to an hour to hear your case and they start with 50/50 custody and unless something significant is brought up that is usually the normal ruling. 

Often times people have an opinion about whether they want their divorce lawyer to be male or female, all our attorneys are very qualified and care about who the client is now what they are. 

We ask Chris about working with clients to reach goals that we as their attorney's know they cannot reach. His response: "Regardless of how we think factually or whatnot, their feelings are valid, they are living it. And that's what I tell them a lot of times in that first meeting. I say I've known you for an hour. I don't know your soon to be Ex from Adam. I am hearing what you're saying and we're going to try to do the best we can. My job is to make your life a little bit better by the time we are done, I really cannot solve all your problems."

We talk about how Christmas and the pandemic has made a crazy season for divorce lawyers. 

More about Chris: 
Chris is a native North Carolinian, born and raised in Benson.  After attending the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill where he double-majored in Political Science and Communications, Chris graduated from the Saint Louis University School of Law. Chris joined a law firm in Harnett County shortly after graduating and returned back to North Carolina.

Chris’ early practice focused on family law, but also involved criminal defense, civil litigation, competency proceedings, juvenile defense, veteran’s treatment courts and cases against the Department of Social Services.  With this broad range of experience, Chris has been exposed to the many issues that clients may be experiencing during a separation.  More importantly, he has helped people going through all types of crises, whether it’s divorce, death, addiction or mental illness.

Chris has narrowed his practice to family law, as this allows him to pursue his passion of connecting with people who need help during difficult times. He also enjoys the process of litigation, from the initial client meeting all the way to trial. Chris works hard to be a champion for his clients through what can seem like a daunting and overwhelming experience.

Away from the office, Chris spends his free time with his wife and daughter, visiting Raleigh-Durham’s museums, restaurants and parks.  He also enjoys golf, basketball and fishing.

Having been involved in the IT industry for 30 years, Derek has seen the change in perception from what personal computers used to seem safe because people used them in the privacy of their homes, to today when it is easy to trace our activities online. He also notices the courtships and illicit affairs are accelerated by technology.

He also unpacks retro sex, which is a phenomenon of reconnecting with someone you haven't seen in 10-30 years and hooking up with them after reconnecting digitally.

In his career of going through 1000s of phones and devices, he has seen virtually everything.

In digital forensics, everything leaves a trace. You may not be able to recover deleted info but you can usually find a trace.

"If someone is engaging in a lot of misconduct, even if it's not infidelity if it's gambling or poor habits... even if they try to cover their tracks, there is going to be some information."

Derek shares a story about a man who was using prostitutes and found a creative way to issue payment. The women he associated with all had amazon wish lists, and he would purchase the items off their list so the only thing he looked guilty of was having a bad amazon habit.

One of the areas that they look at a lot is video game communities. People who play games online can develop just as strong as a relationship as those in real life. If you're a parent who thinks your kid is too young for a phone, but they have a video game platform with an internet connection and camera, you may need to take a closer look.

Derek talked about online privacy, and what happens when privacy is compromised.

You can find out more about Derek on his website. And watch his talk on TikTok mentioned in this epsiode.