Human Potential Lab

Today we welcome Carl Hart. He is the Ziff Professor of Psychology in the Departments of Psychology and Psychiatry at Columbia University. He is known for his research on neuropsychopharmacology and his advocacy for the decriminalization of recreational drugs. Carl is the author of High Price and has co-authored the introductory textbook Drugs, Society, and Human Behavior with Charles Ksir. His most recent book is called Drug Use for Grown-Ups.

In this episode, I talk to Carl Hart about drug use and addiction. Society is quick to judge all drug users as addicts but Carl’s research found that the majority of drug users do not meet the criteria for pathology. Recreational drugs, when used responsibly, can have positive effects on people.  Instead of waging a war on drugs, Carl advocates for laws that better regulate the production and sale of substances. We also touch on the topics of health, law, racism, cognition, and sociology.

Website: drcarlhart.com

Twitter: @drcarlhart

Topics

02:32 Carl’s interest in neuropsychopharmacology

06:12 The brain disease model of addiction

11:22 Should we talk about drugs with kids?

13:47 Responsible drug use for grown-ups

17:08 Drugs in pursuit of happiness

22:54 The Harrison Narcotics Tax Act 

29:28 Scott’s experience with edibles

33:21 Why we need drug checking facilities

37:01 The drug user tropes in media 

41:59 Predictors of drug abuse and addiction 

46:42 Drug overdose and safety

50:09 Personal responsibility in drug addiction

52:45 Our moralism is killing us

55:06 Coming out as a heroin user

57:52 Bob Marley and James Baldwin 

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Today we welcome Susan Cain. She is the author of Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking, which spent eight years on The New York Times bestseller list, and has been translated into 40 languages. Susan’s TED talk has been viewed over 40 million times and was named by Bill Gates as one of his all-time favorite talks. Her new masterpiece is called Bittersweet: How Sorrow and Longing Make Us Whole.

In this episode, I talk to Susan Cain about the complex emotion of bittersweet. We explore melancholy and how the intertwined recognition of beauty and impermanence can be tapped for creative pursuits. Susan also talks about how existential longing is a natural part of the human condition, allowing us to form deeper connections with one another. We also touch on the topics of creativity, spirituality, relationships, grief, and mortality. 

Website: susancain.net

Twitter: @susancain

Topics

02:31 The spectrum of bittersweet

06:10 The paradox of tragedy

07:41 Melancholy is not always depression

11:16 Longing for Eden

16:22 Spirituality is a manifestation of longing

18:30 Existential longing, awe, and wonder

23:25 Reaching through acts of love

30:30 The new science of transcendence

35:59 Mortality and transhumanism 

39:44 Maslow’s plateau experiences 

43:17 The epigenetics of inherited trauma

48:30 Follow your existential longing

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Today we welcome Tim Urban. He is the writer and illustrator of the blog Wait But Why, which he co-founded with Andrew Finn in 2013. With wry stick-figure illustrations and occasionally epic prose, Wait But Why has garnered millions of unique page views, thousands of patrons and famous fans like Elon Musk. His long-form blog covers a range of subjects including artificial intelligence, outer space, and procrastination. Tim earned his A.B. from Harvard University, graduating cum laude with a major in Government. 

In this episode, I talk to Tim Urban about the complex relationship between identity and critical thinking. Tim cautions against blind loyalty to specific ideologies for it can lead to an echo chamber of tribal minds. Instead of dogmatic maxims, he suggests we uphold basic core principles that guide our thoughts and behavior. In this way, Tim believes we engage in high rung thinking all the while cultivating “idea labs” within our culture. We also touch on the topics of dating, education, politics, writing, morality, and tech.  

Website: waitbutwhy.com

Twitter: @waitbutwhy

Topics

02:21 Intellectual ADHD

06:14 Detached truth seeking 

08:40 Pitfalls of low rung thinking

16:15 Tim’s upbringing and education

21:01 Dating is kind of like Grand Theft Auto

37:50 “Your ego is a backpack”

44:35 The world needs your spaghetti brain

51:38 Idea labs and echo chambers

57:42 The spectrum of opposing views

1:01:13 Repressing science for ideology

1:09:24 Life, death, and cryonics

1:25:05 Learning in analogies and metaphors

1:29:44 Evaluating high quality ideas

1:36:23 Choosing what to read

1:39:35 Tim’s life altering idea

1:42:28 Mars, capitalism, neurolinks 

1:47:02 Lightning round

1:53:07 But why wait?

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Today we welcome Jane McGonigal. She is a world-renowned game designer who challenges players to tackle real-world problems such as poverty, depression, and climate change through collaboration. Jane is also a future forecaster, serving as the current Director of Games Research & Development at the Institute for the Future. Her games and forecasting work have been featured in The New York Times, Wired, The Economist, CNN, NPR and more. As a two-time New York Times bestselling author, she has recently published her third book called Imaginable. 

In this episode, I talk to Jane McGonigal about the intersection of gaming and future forecasting. Jane asserts that games are not just for escapist entertainment; they could also be used to help prepare us for what’s to come. Imagining fictional simulations can inspire us to make present changes which can influence our personal and collective futures for the better. We also touch on the topics of creativity, psychotherapy, forecasting, hope, and tech. 

Website: janemcgonigal.com

Twitter: @avantgame

Topics

02:08 Futurist game design

05:44 Imagination and the psychological safety of games

09:17 Forecasting and psychotherapy 

15:54 Urgent optimism

21:10 Predicting the COVID-19 pandemic in 2010

23:52 Can we predict our own futures?

27:50 Affective vs behavioral forecasting

34:05 The Institute for the Future

36:52 Future scenarios change present behavior

41:41 The perils and promise of facial recognition

47:24 Assessment and benefits of futurist imagination

52:45 The need for more longitudinal studies 

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Today we welcome Dr. Antonio Damasio. He is an internationally recognized neuroscientist whose extensive research has shaped the understanding of neural systems and consciousness. With over a hundred journal articles and book chapters, he has earned many prestigious awards throughout his career. Currently, he serves as University Professor, the David Dornsife Professor of Neuroscience, Psychology, and Philosophy, and director of the Brain and Creativity Institute at the University of Southern California. His books Descartes’ Error, Looking for Spinoza, Self Comes to Mind, The Strange Order of Things, and Feeling & Knowing, have been published in translation and are taught in universities throughout the world.

In this episode, I talk to Antonio Damasio about consciousness. People often think that the mind and consciousness are the same thing, but Dr. Damasio disputes this notion. He argues that it’s the complex relationship of both our brains and bodies that makes sentient thought possible. Homeostatic feelings like hunger and pain developed before emotions; and along with it came consciousness. We also touch on the topics of perception, mental illness, evolution, panpsychism, AI and machine learning. 

Website: dornsife.usc.edu/bc

Twitter: @damasiousc

Topics

02:17 Time-locked multiregional retroactivation

11:32 The difference between the mind, intelligence, and consciousness

18:37 Panpsychism is an escape

22:50 AIs can replicate minds but not consciousness 

25:42 Feeling gave way to consciousness

30:59 The purpose of emotions

33:25 The evolution of feelings and emotions

38:28 The interoceptive nervous system

44:23 Does mental illness disrupt consciousness?

49:51 Creativity as a bottom-up process

54:38 Consciousness can hinder creativity

58:09 Scott’s interest in panpsychism

59:18 Can we ever make feeling machines?

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In this episode, my guest is Charles Koch. Charles G. Koch is chairman and CEO of Koch Industries, one of the largest privately held American companies. During his tenure with the company, the estimated value has grown from $21 million to more than $100 billion. Charles has published several books detailing his business philosophy: The Science of Success, Good Profit, and Believe in People.

As an influential philanthropist, he supports education, a community of organizations addressing persistent poverty, and public-policy research focused on developing effective solutions to societal problems. He has founded numerous organizations, including Stand Together and the Cato Institute. He holds two master’s degrees in nuclear and chemical engineering from MIT and lives in Wichita, Kansas, with his wife, Liz.

In this episode, I talk to Charles Koch about his bottom-up approach to social change. Charles recognizes that each individual has a gift; schools and organizations should cultivate these unique strengths instead of trying to force people into molds. Charles asserts that institutions can create more meaningful value this way, by truly believing in people. We also touch on the topics of multiple intelligences, self-actualization, education, innovation, and philanthropy.

Website: charleskoch.com

Twitter: @KochIndustries

Topics

04:02 Multiple intelligence theories

07:44 Finding consistent principles of human progress

10:08 Transforming Koch Industries

14:38 Virtuous Cycles of Mutual Benefit

20:07 Bottom-Up Solutions for a Top-Down World

23:51 Empowering contribution-motivated individuals

31:27 Supervisors as self-actualization coaches

37:16 From partisanship to partnership

42:35 Charles’ vision for a self-actualizing society

44:18 Eupsychian Management by Maslow

47:50 Frederick Douglass and Viktok Frankl

51:41 #GiveTogetherNow 

53:00 A society that rewards synergy

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In this episode, I talk to law professor and mindfulness leader Rhonda Magee about her book The Inner Work of Racial Justice. We discuss her innovative approach to healing racial divides using mindfulness. Rhonda argues that when we bring awareness and compassion to ourselves, relationships, and the environment, we invite healing and connection. We also touch on the topics of education, spirituality, liberation, democracy, and community.

Bio

Rhonda V. Magee (M.A. Sociology, J.D.) is a Professor of Law at the University of San Francisco and an internationally-recognized thought and practice leader focused on integrating mindfulness into higher education, law and social change work. Rhonda’s teaching and writing support compassionate conflict engagement and management; holistic problem-solving to alleviate the suffering of the vulnerable and injured; presence-based leadership in a diverse world, and humanizing approaches to education. Her book, The Inner Work of Racial Justice, advocates for a mindfulness and compassion-based approach to confront racial injustice and work towards healing.

Website: www.rhondavmagee.com

Twitter: @rvmagee

Topics

01:45 Rhonda’s childhood and upbringing

06:48 Personal vs systemic racism 

09:43 Education during desegregation 

16:55 Rhonda’s interest in mindfulness

25:12 Bridge racial divides with mindfulness

32:51 Liberating practices grounded in being

42:59 Listen for understanding and connection

46:28 The ecology for justice

51:47 Find a collective consensus 

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In this episode, I talk to social philosopher Daniel Schmachtenberger about exponential technology and its effects on our current world. According to Daniel, organizations that harness the power of modern tech rarely use it for good–like how social media companies boost polarizing content to maximize user engagement–leading to a distrust of science and destabilized democracies. To overcome humanity’s current existential threat, Daniel argues we all need to work towards a radical cultural enlightenment. We also touch on the topics of collective intelligence, human development, power, responsibility, and civilization.

Bio

Daniel Schmachtenberger is a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue. The throughline of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal.

Motivated by the belief that advancing collective intelligence and capacity is foundational to the integrity of any civilization, and necessary to address the unique risks we currently face given the intersection of globalization and exponential technology, he has spoken publicly on many of these topics, hoping to popularize and deepen important conversations and engage more people in working towards their solutions.

Website: consilienceproject.org

Topics

02:52 Techno-optimism vs techno-pessimism 

04:28 Definition of exponential technology

08:39 Is the world getting better from tech?

10:37 The radical asymmetry of power

13:58 Decoupling rewards from development

25:19 A new social media algorithm 

28:56 Tribal politics, certainty, and perspective taking 

33:55 Developing better cognitive capacities

42:06 Rights and responsibilities in a liquid democracy

46:23 The next phase of open societies

49:26 The Consilience Project

52:23 The need for cultural enlightenment 

56:13 Creating an antifragile world

58:49 Collective intelligence

1:00:39 Establish expertise and credibility in institutions

1:05:24 The unique existential threat of the 21st Century 

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In this episode, I talk to esteemed psychologist Todd Kashdan about the art of insubordination. As creatures of habit, humans seek familiarity in thoughts, behaviors, and interactions. But Todd argues that deviating from norms isn’t always a bad thing—especially if it’s in pursuit of positive change. To enact principled dissent effectively, Todd teaches us how to persuade the majority and how to embrace unconventional solutions. We also touch on the topics of conformity, intimacy, influence, victimhood, and curiosity.

Bio

Todd Kashdan is among the world’s top experts on the psychology of well-being, psychological strengths, mental agility, and social relationships. His research has been featured in hundreds of media outlets, including multiple articles in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and Forbes. In 2010, he received the Distinguished Faculty Member of the Year Award at George Mason University and in 2013, he received the Distinguished Early Career Researcher Award by the American Psychological Association. Todd is the author of Curious?, The Upside of Your Darkside, and Designing Positive Psychology. His latest book is The Art of Insubordination. 

Website: toddkashdan.com

Twitter: @toddkashdan

Topics

01:34 The elements of principled insubordination

05:07 Why do people conform?

08:57 Social change by principled rebels 

14:21 Win responsibly

19:02 Extract wisdom from weirdos

24:22 Do cartwheels in the library

29:06 Self-care for rebels

31:25 How to win over the majority

36:13 Spark curiosity not fear

42:03 Build stronger alliances during conflict

48:23 Boredom, polarization, and insight

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It's important to recognize that when we're dealing with a very new or rapidly changing phenomenon, like we have been with the pandemic, even the "scientific consensus" can easily be wrong because there's not been much time for the rigorous replicability studies to be conducted or even sometimes to accurately measure the proper effect sizes. 

However, I also believe it's important that we don't create a false equivalency between very fringe ideas that are unsupported by the current evidence base and a scientific consensus that is grounded in rigorous methodology. 

This is why I sought out the counsel of Dr. Eric Topol on today's show. Despite being one of the top 10 most cited researchers in medicine and being extremely well regarded in his field of cardiology, he's also been a bright light on social media, shining a light on the best available evidence in the pandemic. He thoughtfully considered all my questions and was very careful to make clear what the current evidence base says without ruling out alternative possibilities in the future in light of new evidence. 

In this episode, we cover a number of hot button issues surrounding the pandemic including the potential use of ivermectin to end the pandemic, the potential for increased risk of myocarditis among certain populations after vaccination. We even discuss the role human psychology and human behavior have played in this pandemic. Ultimately, Dr. Topol is optimistic about the future of the pandemic and outlines things coming down the horizon that should give us hope. But as we discussed, the major problems tend to be human problems. 

Bio

Eric Topol is a cardiologist, scientist, and author. He is the Founder and Director of the Scripps Research Translational Institute, Professor of Molecular Medicine, and Executive Vice-President of Scripps Research.

As a researcher, he has published over 1200 peer-reviewed articles, with more than 290,000 citations, elected to the National Academy of Medicine, and is one of the top 10 most cited researchers in medicine. Dr. Topol has been voted as the #1 most Influential physician leader in the United States in a national poll conducted by Modern Healthcare. Besides editing several textbooks, he has published 3 bestseller books on the future of medicine: The Creative Destruction of Medicine, The Patient Will See You Now, and Deep Medicine: How Artificial Intelligence Can Make Healthcare Human Again.

Website: drerictopol.com

Twitter: @EricTopol

Topics

05:51 What is Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)?

08:21 COVID-19 vaccines are humanity’s greatest medical achievement

12:05 Infection acquired immunity

13:47 Vaccine and COVID induced myocarditis 

16:56 The efficacy of booster shots 

20:20 Ivermectin studies: what does the data say? 

25:15 How to improve pandemic response

30:02 Hope for the future of the pandemic

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