Psychologists Off the Clock

Sometimes saying “yes” too much can really take a toll on you. In this episode, Jill chats with Dr. Sunita Sah, a bestselling author and Cornell professor, about her book Defy: The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes. 

They break down how constant compliance can affect your emotions, mind, and body, and share strategies for recognizing when it’s time to push back. 

Sunita introduces the concept of a ‘Defiance Compass’ to help guide people in acting according to their values. You’ll also learn about the difference between going along with something and truly giving consent, how anxiety can arise in difficult situations, and why practicing small acts of defiance can prepare you for bigger, high-stakes moments.

Listen and Learn: 

• How can redefining "defiance" from a negative act of resistance to an alignment with true values help us better understand the balance between compliance, consent, and social pressure?
• Why is defiance better understood as a staged process on a continuum rather than a simple yes/no choice, and how does recognizing tension help us navigate compliance?
• Distinguishing between true expert intuition and bias-driven gut feelings when making decisions in uncertain situations
• Why is it so difficult for people to resist compliance and obedience in high-pressure situations, and how can practicing defiance help us prepare to say no and prevent harm?
• How can we recognize the difference between true consent and mere compliance, and what essential elements are needed to ensure a genuine "yes"?
• Navigating situations where we technically have the freedom to say no, but psychological pressures like insinuation anxiety or fear of consequences make it difficult to speak up
• How do insinuation anxiety and the sales pitch effect interact to increase pressure to comply, even when consent is technically present?
• Overcoming the tension and fear of non-compliance to act in alignment with our values using tools like the Defiance Compass
• How you can practice defiance as a skill

Resources:

• Defy: The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593445778
• Sunita’s Website: https://www.sunitasah.com/
• Connect with Sunita on Social Media:

https://www.instagram.com/drsunitasah

https://www.linkedin.com/in/drsunitasah/

https://www.tiktok.com/@drsunitasah 

About Sunita Sah

Dr. Sunita Sah is a national bestselling author, an award-winning professor at Cornell University, and an expert in organizational psychology. She leads groundbreaking research on influence, authority, compliance, and defiance. A trained physician, Dr. Sah practiced medicine in the United Kingdom and worked as a management consultant for the pharmaceutical industry. She currently teaches executives, leaders, and students in healthcare and business.

Dr. Sah is also a sought-after international speaker and consultant, an advisor to government agencies, and a former Commissioner of the National Commission on Forensic Science. Her multidisciplinary research and analyses have been widely published in leading academic journals and media outlets, including The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Harvard Business Review, and Scientific American. She lives with her husband and son in New York.

Related Episodes:

• 211. Subtract with Leidy Klotz
• 276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
• 305. The Power of Saying No with Vanessa Patrick
• 311. Nobody’s Fool with Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris
• 394. Sunlight is the Best Disinfectant with Andrea Dunlop and Mike Weber
• 399. Likable Badass with Alison Fragale

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Parenting often means walking a fine line between setting boundaries and showing warmth, all while managing your own feelings in the process. In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, Emily chats with Dr. Alissa Jerud about her book Emotion-Savvy Parenting and how recognizing and working with both your emotions and your child’s can build stronger connections and a calmer home life.

Dr. Jerud shares her approach, Emotion Savvy Parenting, which draws from evidence-based methods such as exposure-based treatments and dialectical behavior therapy skills. She breaks down what makes up our emotional experiences, offers tools like the CARE skills for navigating intense situations, and explores topics such as the limits of gentle parenting, why mid-meltdown logic usually falls flat, and how differing parenting styles between caregivers can create challenges.

Listen and Learn: 

• How can parents respond skillfully and effectively to their children while managing their own strong and uncomfortable emotions?
• Combining respectful parenting and evidence-based therapies to help parents manage their own emotions, maintain firm limits, and model emotional regulation for their children
• The ways parents navigate the gray areas and overlaps between gentle parenting and autonomy-supportive parenting while avoiding the black-and-white thinking often seen on social media
• Parents often step in to fix their child’s struggles, but noticing and accepting their emotions and behaviors as they are can help children build resilience and support more effective parenting
• The primary and secondary ingredients of emotions, their triggers, how thoughts shape them, and how they show up physically and behaviorally, help parents regulate their own emotions by targeting these different aspects of feelings
• Quick, practical ways to manage intense emotions by regulating the body’s physiological response
• Why rigid beliefs that children must always obey can create frustration and disconnect, while accepting their emotions and allowing authentic expression supports both kids’ and parents’ emotional well-being
• The importance of accepting and validating a child’s emotions during emotional storms rather than trying to immediately fix or suppress them
• Recognizing that each child’s emotional needs are unique, and effective parenting often means staying present and supportive without trying to immediately fix or validate the emotion

Resources: 

• Alissa’s Website: https://www.alissajerud.com/ 
• Emotion-Savvy Parenting: A Shame-Free Guide to Navigating Emotional Storms and Deepening Connection: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781032544946 
• Connect with Alissa on Social Media: 
• https://www.instagram.com/emotionsavvydoc/?hl=en
• https://www.facebook.com/emotionsavvydoc/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/alissa-jerud-210764174 
• Emily’s Articles:
• What’s Wrong with Gentle Parenting? Psychology Today
• The Truth About Parents Who Yell at Their Kids, Psychology Today

About Alissa Jerud

Alissa Jerud, Ph.D. is a mom of two kids, a licensed clinical psychologist, a Clinical Assistant Professor at the University of Pennsylvania, and author of Emotion-Savvy Parenting: A Shame-Free Guide to Navigating Emotional Storms and Deepening Connection. She has a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the University of Washington and completed her postdoctoral fellowship at the University of Pennsylvania’s Center for the Treatment and Study of Anxiety. In her private practice, Dr. Jerud specializes in exposure-based treatments for anxiety-related disorders, including obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), social anxiety disorder, panic disorder, specific phobias, and generalized anxiety disorder. Additionally, she specializes in Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) skills training and particularly enjoys helping other parents learn research-backed strategies for accepting, regulating, and tolerating their emotions, as well as their children's. Dr. Jerud also trains other clinicians in exposure-based treatments and frequently gives workshops on anxiety, stress, mental health, parenting, and social support to companies large and small.

Related Episodes

• 386. Parents Are Stressed: What Do We Do About It? 
• 373. How to Stop Freaking Out with Carla Naumburg
• 344. Differently Wired Kids with Deborah Reber
• 241. Emotion Coaching Skills for Families with Mindy Solomon
• 240. Talking to Kids and Teens About Big Feelings with Adele LaFrance
• 149. How to Not Lose It with Your Kids with Carla Naumburg
• 14. Mindful Parenting
• 9. Children’s Emotions: Understanding and Responding to Your Child’s Emotions

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If you’re stuck in an unhealthy relationship and wondering whether it’s right for you or you’re recently facing the pain and confusion of a breakup, we invite you to tune into this episode with John Kim, also known as the Angry Therapist, to explore his viewpoint on relationship endings. 

John lays out how breakups or ‘relationship expirations’ as he coins them, can serve as powerful catalysts to kickstart your own personal growth, and highlights the importance of self-reflection, healthy boundaries, and meaningful connection with yourself and others. 

Speaking from his own experiences, as well as insights and stories from his latest book, Breakup on Purpose, you’ll hear why John sees breakups as not just painful endings but meaningful rites of passage that can offer space to learn and evolve. 

Listen and Learn:

• Breakups, while painful, can be a powerful catalyst for personal growth when approached with reflection and ownership
• Shifting how we view breakups from failures to “expired relationships” helps us embrace healing and rewrite the narrative around endings
• How to balance knowing when to work through relationship challenges versus when it’s healthy to walk away
• Why breakups are a natural rite of passage and essential for personal growth
• Why humility and self-reflection are essential but often difficult steps toward personal growth
• Healing from a breakup involves embracing the pain with compassion, finding purpose beyond the relationship, and transforming personal loss into growth and a greater meaningful journey
• How society places too much importance on romantic love as the sole source of meaning and fulfillment and elying on one romantic partner to fulfill all needs is unrealistic and sets people up for disappointment
• Breakups have distinctive types that require different responses and healing strategies
• How to balance self-comfort with avoiding behaviors that hinder healing after a breakup by setting personal limits and gradually re-engaging with life
• The importance of meaningful connection, whether through community, close relationships, or personal passions, as a vital part of recovery, especially for introverts
• The cycle of rupture and repair in relationships is essential, teaching us how to build deeper connection, resilience, and emotional safety

Resources:

• John’s Website: https://www.theangrytherapist.com/
• John’s Books: 
• Break Up On Purpose: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780063275331 
• Single On Purpose: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780062980731 
• Connect with John on Socials: 
• https://www.facebook.com/john.kim.1650/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/theangrytherapist
• https://www.instagram.com/theangrytherapist/
• Power of Discord by Ed Tronick and Claudia Gold: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780316488877 
• Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780807060100 

About John Kim

John Kim, widely known as 'The Angry Therapist.' John is a licensed therapist, engaging speaker, fellow podcaster, and best-selling author whose works include 'It's Not Me, It's You,' 'Single. On Purpose,' and 'I Used to Be a Miserable F*ck.' What makes John's approach unique is how he shares therapeutic wisdom through his blog and Instagram, using authenticity and transparency to connect with and support people on their personal journeys.

Related Episodes:

• 117. Bearing Unbearable Loss: A Conversation about Grief with Joanne Cacciatore
• 126. Surviving Break-Ups and Divorce: How to Mend a Broken Heart, with Debbie and Yael
• 186. Set Boundaries Find Peace with Nedra Tawwab
• 249. How to be Single and Happy with Jenny Taitz
• 343. Heartbreak with Florence Williams

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Could the stories you tell yourself be shaping how you see yourself? Sometimes those stories build us up, but other times, they are just quietly tearing us down. In this episode, Michael talks with Dr. Phil Lane, a licensed clinical social worker and the author of The Narrative Therapy Workbook for Self-Esteem, about how we can start to shift those inner stories in a healthier direction.

Phil shares what led him to narrative therapy and why storytelling can be an incredibly powerful tool for healing. He talks about how many of us carry around dominant narratives, which are beliefs about ourselves that sometimes we may not even realize we’ve absorbed. And explains how you can learn to question and rewrite those beliefs, helping us reconnect with who we really are.

You'll also benefit from the core techniques behind narrative therapy, like scaffolding and deconstruction, and explore what it’s like to share your personal story in different settings.

Listen and Learn: 

• How the power of storytelling in a safe space can transform self-perception and healing
• Changing the story you've been telling yourself and beginning to see who you truly are, more fully and clearly
• Uncovering hidden parts of your life story beyond the dominant narrative you've accepted
• How inherited beliefs shape your story and how to consciously rewrite it for yourself
• Identifying faulty beliefs and clarifying your values helps rewrite your personal story for self-acceptance
• Understanding your past to shape your present story empowers your daily life choices
• How to rebuild your personal story by carefully scaffolding and deconstructing it for true self-accuracy
• Embracing curiosity to uncover and challenge the beliefs you’ve always seen as true
• How acceptance and reframing your story can empower you to embrace life's challenges and thrive
• Viewing your life story as multi-genre can bring richer healing and balance
• How narrative therapy reveals deeper meaning beyond surface explanations
• When and how to share your sacred story meaningfully beyond small talk and surface talk

Resources: 

• The Narrative Therapy Workbook for Self-Esteem: Rewrite Your Story, Overcome Imposter Syndrome and Feelings of Inadequacy, and Build Lasting Confidence: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781648485312
• Phil’s Website: https://www.phil-lane.com/
• You 2.0: Change Your Story, Change Your Life: https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/healing-2-0-change-your-story-change-your-life/
• Connect with Phil on Social Media:
• https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100087891174326
• https://instagram.com/therapist_phil 

About Phil Lane

Phil Lane is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, psychotherapist in private practice and author of the books Understanding and Coping with Illness Anxiety, The Narrative Therapy Workbook for Self-Esteem and Overcoming Panic and Panic Attacks. Phil practices and writes from a humanistic point of view with a goal of normalizing and de-stigmatizing commonly experienced problems and challenges. Phil and his family live in the central part of New Jersey where he enjoys gardening, reading, writing, watching baseball, and model railroading. Phil can be found on Instagram at @therapist_phil and online at phil-lane.com. You can also find his author pages on Amazon and Goodreads. 

Related Episodes

• 239. Edit Your Story, Change Your Life with Lori Gottlieb

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk has become a go-to book for understanding trauma, but not everyone agrees with its approach. 

In this episode, journalist and author of Acceptance: A Memoir, Emi Nietfeld joins us to talk about The Body Keeps the Score and how it influenced the world of trauma therapy. Bringing both her personal experience and sharp insight to the table, she enlightens us on trauma treatment and why popular narratives around resilience and recovery often miss the mark, especially when they lean more on storytelling than science.

We get into where the book falls short, especially around science and why proven methods like CBT and prolonged exposure therapy deserve more attention. Emi also opens up about how those treatments personally changed her life.

It’s an honest look at trauma, what really works, and how we can do better, both personally and as a society.

Listen and Learn:

• Why true resilience isn't about toughness alone but about community, care, and real support systems
• How the mental health system often fails kids by ignoring family dysfunction and why real change starts with seeing the full context, not just labeling the child
• Why positive thinking isn't enough for trauma recovery and how validating, supportive therapy makes all the difference when you're ready to speak your truth
• Avoiding trauma memories in therapy can cause more harm and what effective healing requires
• How popular trauma books like “The Body Keeps the Score” can fuel shame
• Challenging the "addicted to trauma" label and how oversimplified narratives can stigmatize survivors and ignore systemic causes of violence
• How trauma research can be misrepresented, especially about cognitive behavioral therapy’s real effectiveness
• Using structured prolonged exposure therapy to help you safely face trauma and build resilience
• Writing a memoir can unearth painful truths, but honest storytelling sparks real healing and self-acceptance
• Why popular trauma books feel like belief systems—and why we need solutions beyond therapy

Resources: 

• Emi’s Book Acceptance: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593489499 
• Emi’s website https://www.eminietfeld.com/ and her Substack https://eminietfeld.substack.com/ 
• Connect with Emi on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/emi-nietfeld/ and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/eminietfeld/ 
• Mother Jones article: https://www.motherjones.com/media/2024/12/trauma-body-keeps-the-score-van-der-kolk-psychology-therapy-ptsd/ 
• Slate article: https://slate.com/technology/2024/08/sexual-assault-treatment-talk-therapy-prolonged-exposure-recovery.html
• Article mentioned on trauma theory as a belief system: https://beiner.substack.com/p/the-truth-about-trauma-bessel-van

About Emi Nietfield

Emi Nietfeld is an author, journalist, and speaker. She is the author of Acceptance (Penguin Press ‘22), a memoir of her journey through foster care and homelessness, interrogating the true meanings of resilience, ambition, and success. After graduating from Harvard in 2015, she worked as a software engineer, an experience she wrote about in her viral New York Times essay, “After Working At Google, I’ll Never Let Myself Love a Job Again.”

She’s passionate about mental health, helping young people navigate their careers, and the connection between engineering and creativity. A dynamic, sought-after speaker, she can be found on podcasts, leading conference keynotes, and speaking at universities and companies alike.

Her essays have appeared in The New York Times, New York Magazine, The Atlantic,  and other publications, been nominated for the Pushcart Prize, noted in The Best American Essays, and taught in classrooms from high schools to MFA programs.

Related Episodes: 

• 416. Trauma and PTSD Treatment with Robyn Walser
• 383. What My Bones Know: C-PTSD with Stephanie Foo
• 279. ACT for Healing Black Racial Trauma with Jennifer Shepard Payne 
• 313. ACT-Informed Exposure for Anxiety with Brian Pilecki and Brian Thompson
• 355. What is EMDR with Jamie Marich 
• 77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard    

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Trauma and PTSD leave a lasting imprint on how we see ourselves and navigate the world, which is why Debbie sits down with returning guest Dr. Robyn Walser for this episode, a clinical psychologist and expert in evidence-based treatment for PTSD, to explore the path to trauma recovery. 

Robyn unpacks the principles of exposure therapy, the importance of processing traumatic experiences, and insights from her new book, which she co-authored with Darrah Westrup, You Are Not Your Trauma. 

This conversation offers a deep understanding of PTSD, the wide-ranging effects of trauma, and how healing involves redefining one’s relationship to past events rather than being retraumatized by them.

Listen and Learn:

• Breaking free from trauma’s grip and reconnecting with the deeper, fuller self beyond it
• Why understanding the true meaning of trauma matters and how misusing the word can impact healing
• Understanding how trauma, whether single events or complex, can cause avoidance, disrupt life, and impact relationships
• How trauma’s fear cycle traps you and how changing your relationship to thoughts frees you to live again
• Reclaiming your life by embracing fear and living your values fully through trauma recovery in ACT
• Embracing the natural flow of trauma memories helps you process and regain freedom
• Using written exposure therapy helps you safely process trauma by revisiting and writing about it
• How structured, flexible exposure therapy in Robyn and Darrah’s new book, You Are Not Your Trauma, helps you process trauma and build lasting resilience

Resources: 

• Coming Soon—You Are Not Your Trauma: An Acceptance and Commitment Therapy Guide for Healing from Within by Robyn Walser and Darrah Westrup: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781462557899
• Robyn’s Website: https://robynwalser.com/
• Connect with Robyn on Social Media: 

https://www.instagram.com/walser.robyn/

https://www.facebook.com/theheartofact

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robynwalser 

About Robyn D. Walser

Robyn D. Walser, Ph.D., is an internationally recognized clinical psychologist, educator, and author. She is the Director of Trauma and Life Consultation and Psychology Services, Assistant Professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and Director of Research at Bay Area Trauma Recovery Clinical Services. Dr. Walser has contributed significantly to the dissemination of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and holds a pivotal role in implementing ACT in one of the US's largest national healthcare systems. She also works at the National Center for PTSD, where her work focus is on trauma recovery, depression, and moral injury. A writer and scholar, Dr. Walser has co-authored nine influential books on ACT, including the widely respected The Heart of ACT: Developing a Flexible, Process-Based, and Client-Centered Practice Using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. Her research and clinical expertise have made her a sought-after voice in advancing the application of ACT to address a variety of complex psychological challenges. Since 1997, Dr. Walser has led ACT workshops worldwide, bringing her passion for process-based, experiential learning to therapists and clinicians. Known for her compassionate and client-centered approach, Dr. Walser’s teaching emphasizes the integration of evidence-based practices with human connection and flexibility. Whether through her books, articles, or live training, Dr. Walser continues to influence the evolution of ACT and inspire professionals in their pursuit of effective, transformative therapy. To learn more about her work, visit robynwalser.com.

Book: You Are Not Your Trauma: An ACT Guide for Healing from Within by Robyn D. Walser and Darrah Westrup

Related Episodes: 

• 383. What My Bones Know: C-PTSD with Stephanie Foo
• 279. ACT for Healing Black Racial Trauma with Jennifer Shepard Payne 
• 313. ACT-Informed Exposure for Anxiety with Brian Pilecki and Brian Thompson
• 355. What is EMDR with Jamie Marich 
• 77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard   
• 320. Anger and Forgiveness with Robyn Walser 
• 106. Therapy from “The Heart of ACT” with Robyn Walser
• 98. Narcissism with Avigail Lev and Robyn Walser  
• 49. Empowering Women with Robyn Walser
• 345. Writing for Personal Growth with Maureen Murdock 

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

If you've been feeling like alcohol just doesn’t fit your life anymore, this conversation with Casey Davidson, a Life and Sobriety Coach, might really speak to you.  

Casey opens up about her personal journey of becoming alcohol-free, talks you through the benefits and challenges of sobriety, and clears up some common myths along the way.

You’ll come away with takeaways about the impact alcohol can have on your mental and physical health, how social norms and marketing can negatively influence drinking habits, and why approaching sobriety with curiosity and self-compassion can make all the difference in your journey. 

We hope the personal stories combined with practical insights in this episode will be an inspiring and relatable resource for anyone exploring a more mindful relationship with alcohol.

Listen and Learn: 

• How Casey broke free from nightly wine, ditched mommy wine culture, and found freedom
• How high-functioning people can unknowingly rely on alcohol, and what waking up at 3 AM really means
• Alcohol disrupts joy, sleep, and mood. See what changes when you give it up for just 30 days
• Navigating sobriety without hitting rock bottom, plus mindset shifts, social fears, and partner dynamics
• Why the term "alcoholic" can be misleading, and how redefining sobriety empowers choice
• How non-alcoholic drinks can fit joyful routines without the triggers
• The lasting benefits of 30, 60, and 100 days sober, like better sleep, mood, and self-care
• Why trying to moderate drinking often traps you in a craving cycle, and quitting frees your mind and sparks new creativity

Resources: 

• Casey’s website: Hello Someday Coaching - https://hellosomedaycoaching.com/
• The Hello Someday Podcast For Sober Curious Women - https://hellosomedaycoaching.com/podcast/ 
• Good Morning America asked Casey how I saved $48,000 by not drinking alcohol!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyrfQMv5waU&authuser=0
• Connect with Casey on Social Media:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseydavidson/

https://www.instagram.com/caseymdavidson/

https://facebook.com/hellosomeday

About Casey McGuire Davidson: 

Casey McGuire Davidson is a Life & Sobriety Coach and the host of the Top 100 Mental Health Podcast, The Hello Someday Podcast for Sober Curious Women. 

As an ex-red wine girl who spent 20 years climbing the corporate ladder while holding on tightly to her love of wine, Casey’s passionate about helping busy women stop drinking and create lives they love without alcohol. 

Her work has been featured on Good Morning America, NPR, HuffPost, The New York Times and NBC News.

Related Episodes

• 176. Fair Play with Eve Rodsky
• 202. The Addiction Inoculation with Jess Lahey
• 206. Fair Play Part 2 with Eve Rodsky
• 233. Dopamine Nation with Anna Lembke
• 247. Find Your Unicorn Space with Eve Rodsky
• 286. Not Drinking Tonight with Amanda White
• 316. Understanding Addiction with Judith Grisel
• 402. Harm Reduction for Addiction with Kristin Dempsey

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Why do so many kids seem unmotivated at school, and what can we do about it? In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, we’re taking a look at what’s really going on with student engagement, especially during those tricky adolescent years. 

Our guests, Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson, co-authors of The Disengaged Teen, join Emily to break it all down. From the four types of learners—the Passenger, Achiever, Resistor, and Explorer—to how we can help kids tap into curiosity and motivation, this conversation is full of eye-opening insights for both parents and educators. 

They also unpack the pressures of today’s achievement culture, the influence of tech and AI, and most importantly, how parents and teachers can support teens in becoming more confident, engaged learners.

Listen and Learn: 

• Why Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson wrote a game-changing book to fix the student disengagement crisis
• Why only 4% of teens feel truly engaged in school, and what you can do to change that
• What true engagement looks like in your teen 
• How boosting your child’s engagement in learning can improve grades, motivation, and mental health
• Why the “age of achievement” hoop-jumping is harming your child and how to shift toward true agency
• How your child can shift between four learning modes and how you can help them thrive
• Spotting if your child’s stuck in “passenger mode” and igniting their true learning spark
• How your neurodivergent or struggling child can unlock support and build resilience
• How your well-meaning expectations might be fueling your child’s harmful perfectionism
• Turning your child’s “resistor mode” into growth by truly understanding and supporting them
• Why your child’s curiosity and choices spark real learning skills that grades and rules can’t teach
• How your curiosity and relationship with your child can transform their learning mindset

Resources: 

• The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better:
• https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593727072
• Jenny’s website: https://www.jennywestanderson.org/ 
• Rebecca’s website: https://www.rebeccawinthrop.com/
• Connect with Rebecca on social media: 

https://www.instagram.com/drrebeccawinthrop/?hl=en

https://x.com/rebeccawinthrop?lang=en

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-winthrop-b36b0617

• Connect with Jenny on social media: 

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/jennyandersonnyt

https://x.com/jwestanderson?lang=en

https://www.instagram.com/jennyandersonwrites/?hl=en 

About Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson

Rebecca Winthrop is a leading global authority on education, the director of the Center for Universal Education at Brookings and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. She is dedicated to ensuring that every child has the opportunity to thrive in life, work, and as an engaged citizen. She leads cutting-edge research and initiatives aimed at transforming education systems around the world to better support children's learning and development. 

Rebecca is a trusted advisor to both school communities and national and international organizations. Her expertise is sought by many including parent networks, schools, district education leaders, the White House, the United Nations, and Fortune 500 companies. Rebecca's work is centered on developing and advocating for evidence-based strategies that bring people together—families, educators, policymakers, and companies—to help children maximize their potential. 

She holds a PhD from Columbia University’s Teachers College, an MA from its School of International and Public Affairs, and a BA from Swarthmore College.

Jenny Anderson is an award-winning journalist, author, and speaker with more than 25 years of experience. Her work has appeared in some of the world’s leading publications, including The New York Times, where she was on staff for 10 years, TIME, The Atlantic, the Wall Street Journal and Quartz.

Related Episodes:

• 369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
• 344. Differently Wired Kids with Deborah Reber
• 332. Middle School Superpowers with Phyllis Fagell
• 324. Toxic Achievement Culture with Jennifer Wallace
• 319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with Emily Edlynn
• 272. Middle School Matters with Phyllis Fagell

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What’s a skill that can instantly improve your relationships, communication, and even your influence? In this episode, Yael talks with Caroline Fleck, a licensed psychologist and author of Validation, to unpack exactly that.

Caroline explains what validation really is, how it’s different from empathy or sympathy, and why it can be so powerful in both personal and professional relationships. 

They walk you through how validation first gained traction in therapy, especially in dialectical behavior therapy, and Caroline shares simple techniques like attending, copying, and proposing that anyone can use.

You’ll get Caroline’s take on the challenge of validating someone when you strongly disagree, the role of self-disclosure in connection, and how our understanding of emotions has shifted from classic microexpressions to a more nuanced view of emotional experience.

If you’re looking for practical ways to build better relationships and truly connect, this episode is full of insight.

Listen and Learn: 

Resources: 

https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593541210

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolinefleck/

https://www.instagram.com/carolinefleckphd/

https://www.youtube.com/@Dr.CarolineFleck

https://www.tiktok.com/@drcarolinefleck 

About Caroline Fleck: 

Dr. Caroline Fleck is a licensed psychologist, writer, and corporate consultant who has served as a supervisor and consultant for some of the most rigorous training programs in the country, including Dr. Marsha Linehan’s program at the University of Washington, the Department of Psychiatry at Stanford Medical Center, and the VA Palo Alto.

She is a respected voice in psychology and has been featured in national media outlets, including The New York Times, Good Morning America, and The Huffington Post. Her new book, which we’re here to discuss, is the first of its kind to make the specialized validation skills therapists master to get through to anyone available to everyone.

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In a world constantly demanding our attention and energy, have you ever felt trapped between the crucial need to care for yourself and the undeniable urge to care for those around you? 

Well, for this conversation, Debbie gets into that very dilemma with Dr. Jordan Quaglia, as he challenges us to move beyond the 'either/or' of self-care and explore his revolutionary 'We Care' approach. 

Jordan, who is the author of Self-Care to We Care: The New Science of Mindful Boundaries and Caring From an Undivided Heart, gives his take on the research on balancing self-care with caring for others and emphasizes the importance of holding both self-care and compassion for others simultaneously and offers practical strategies for setting healthy boundaries and integrating self-care into daily life. Come join Debbie and Jordan to redefine what it means to care!

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About Jordan Quaglia

Jordan Quaglia, PhD, has spent over a decade researching and teaching on topics such as mindfulness, compassion, and boundaries. He is an associate professor of psychology at Naropa University, where he directs the Cognitive and Affective Science Laboratory and is research director for its Center for the Advancement of Contemplative Education. A recognized expert in the science of compassion, he has been designated as a research fellow by the Mind & Life Institute, a Contemplative Social Justice Scholar for Contemplative Mind in Society, and a panelist for multiple United Nations Day of Vesak conferences. In addition to his research, Jordan co-developed and regularly teaches an eight-week compassion training curriculum for hundreds of individuals. He lives with his wife in Boulder, Colorado.

Book: From Self-Care to We-Care: The New Science of Mindful Boundaries and Caring from an Undivided Heart

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