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In this special episode, Alex Pardo sits down with Armando Cruz to unpack his life-changing experience hiking the tallest mountain in the Dominican Republic. Guided by faith, camaraderie, and determination, they uncover valuable lessons about community, perseverance, and giving back. Hear how this experience reshaped his outlook on life, business, and what it truly means to live with purpose.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
The value of embracing challenges and difficult experiences
Lessons on the meaning of true wealth and the simple yet joyful lives of those living in poverty
Positive impact of community, brotherhood, and supporting one another, especially during times of hardship
Benefits of unplugging from technology and distractions to focus on what truly matters
Key elements in creating a life of purpose and meaningful impact
RESOURCES/LINKS MENTIONED
BLUE Mission
Pico Duarte
TWEETABLES
"You can't be the light of the world and be darkness in your household." - Alex Pardo
"Don't ask for life to be easier, but ask to be stronger."- Alex Pardo
Confidence breeds confidence. And when you don't have it, borrow it from somebody because it feeds you."- Alex Pardo
"Simplicity doesn't give you the luxury of distraction." - Armando Cruz
ABOUT ARMANDO CRUZ
Armando is the creator of the Cleanse & Renewal Program, the Modern Man Virtual Summit, and the R.I.C.H. Man Experience. He is co-owner of Cruz Country Fitness & Physical Therapy with his wife, Christian.
Armando has climbed mountains, run over 50 miles in a day in swamps filled with snakes and alligators, has lived out of his car, and has rollerbladed and surfed in hurricanes, but his biggest adventure has been fatherhood.
He was born and raised in Miami, FL, and is the proud dad of three amazing children. He has been married for over 10 years to his beautiful wife, Christian.
CONNECT WITH ARMANDO
Facebook: Armando Cruz
LinkedIn: Armando Cruz III
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
In this episode, Nick Lamagna explores the crossover between martial arts and entrepreneurship. Drawing from years of experience, he shares strategies for building a localized real estate portfolio, leveraging data to stay ahead of market trends, and making smart, calculated moves. If you're ready to take your real estate game to the next level, this episode delivers the playbook.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
The importance of narrowing your focus to build a stronger, localized real estate presence
Why tracking local market data is critical and how to pivot based on real-time insights
Nick's decision-making framework: when to hold properties versus when to sell
Why most marketing strategies fail and how to stay consistent with fewer channels
Parallels between entrepreneurship and martial arts
RESOURCES/LINKS MENTIONED
BiggerPockets
Henry Washington
James Dainard
Ray Longo
Alex Pardo
TWEETABLES
"When you get a good team, you want to keep them busy, and hold on to quality people that are reliable." - Nick Lamagna
"Never get into a deal unless, before you get in, you know you can get out."- Nick Lamagna
"There's so much wisdom that comes from experience."- Nick Lamagna
ABOUT NICK LAMAGNA
Nick has been investing in real estate since 2005. He does fix and flips, rehabbing, cash flow rentals, portfolios, wholesaling, commercial real estate, and Developments. He has mentored, consulted, and put together programs and curriculums, and he has done public speaking for years on real estate investing. He is the director of a major company and also hosts a podcast. He loves dogs, real estate investing, his family, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
CONNECT WITH NICK
Website: Nick Lamagna
Podcasts: The A Game Podcast | Apple Podcasts
LinkedIn: Nick Lamagna
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
Back for another round, Scot Poirier dives into the practical side of creative deal-making. Learn how to simplify seller conversations, address objections with confidence, and choose the right financing strategy for any scenario. Whether you're flipping houses, investing in storage, or pursuing other asset classes, this episode equips you with the tools to win.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
The psychology behind seller conversations and building trust without pressure
A step-by-step guide to structuring seller-financing deals tailored to individual situations
How to determine the best tool in your creative financing toolbox
Why listening is your greatest asset in sales and how to master language patterns
The flexibility of creative financing to apply across all asset classes
TWEETABLES
"You can't bring a solution if you haven't listened to what the problem is." - Scot Poirier
ABOUT SCOT POIRIER
Scot is a successful Real Estate Investor and Coach. He has acquired properties all over New England, the Carolinas, and Tennessee without relying on banks, using his credit, and accumulating debt. He has coached hundreds of people around the country for more than 5 years, helping them to achieve their financial goals through creative real estate. This is a community of like-minded individuals desiring financial freedom by creating and building successful real estate businesses — Whether that means landing your first cash-flowing property, building up your portfolio, networking with fellow investors, or simply becoming a better real estate investor.
CONNECT WITH SCOT
Website: Scot Poirier
Facebook: Scot Poirier
Facebook Group: My Deal Inc.
Instagram: @scotpoirier
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
Discover how to unlock the potential of creative financing with Scot Poirier. In this episode, he shares actionable insights on how to approach sellers, uncover pain points, and craft non-threatening, win-win solutions. Whether you're new to creative financing or a seasoned investor, Scot's strategies will transform how you navigate real estate deals.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Why creative financing should be considered a universal strategy every real estate investor should master
How to open the door with sellers by identifying pain points without sounding "salesy"
Techniques to ask the right questions that lead to meaningful conversations and uncover flexibility
Strategies to instill assurance through the right language, tone, and approach
Understanding how to overcome objections and recognize the difference between inflexibility and misunderstanding
RESOURCES/LINKS MENTIONED
Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss and Tahl Raz | Paperback, Hardcover, and Kindle
TWEETABLES
"Creative financing embraces all of real estate. It's not a separate niche. This should always be like the—not just an arrow in your quiver—it should be a bunch of them." - Scot Poirier
"If you stay authentically you in the conversation, you will come off authentic."- Scot Poirier
ABOUT SCOT POIRIER
Scot is a successful Real Estate Investor and Coach. He has acquired properties all over New England, the Carolinas, and Tennessee without relying on banks, using his credit, and accumulating debt. He has coached hundreds of people around the country for more than 5 years, helping them to achieve their financial goals through creative real estate. This is a community of like-minded individuals desiring financial freedom by creating and building successful real estate businesses — Whether that means landing your first cash-flowing property, building up your portfolio, networking with fellow investors, or simply becoming a better real estate investor.
CONNECT WITH SCOT
Website: Scot Poirier
Facebook: Scot Poirier
Facebook Group: My Deal Inc.
Instagram: @scotpoirier
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
Real estate is more than transactions—it's a path to freedom when done right. In this episode, Jesse Mills discusses the importance of mindset, clarity, and creative problem-solving in building a thriving real estate business. He shares his inspiring journey from bankruptcy to becoming a top mentor in the industry, along with tips to start, scale, and sustain a real estate business that aligns with your values and goals.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
How Jesse turned financial adversity into a thriving real estate career
The concept of "today money" vs. "tomorrow money" in real estate investing
Why clarity about your goals and skills is essential for sustainable success
The power of creative financing: lease options, subject-to deals, and more
Practical steps to start structuring deals creatively as a transaction engineer
RESOURCES/LINKS MENTIONED
Rich Dad's CASHFLOW Quadrant by Robert T. Kiyosaki | Paperback and Kindle
Procrastinate on Purpose by Rory Vaden | Paperback, Hardcover, and Kindle
Good to Great by Jim Collins | Hardcover and Kindle
Joe McCall
TWEETABLES
"You are where you are because of what you have done or have not done." - Jesse Mills
"Everyone has their skill set and their strengths, things that they're good at, things that they don't want to do." - Jesse Mills
ABOUT JESSE MILLS
Jesse has been a Senior Mortgage Advisor for the last 15 years and a Real Estate Investor for the last 6 years. His passion is to show people how to live the most amazing life possible and to live each day to the fullest. He uses his experience, passion, and creativity to help as many as he can get into a home of their own, reduce their debt, get on the path to financial freedom, and realize the opportunities we have today to live a life most dream of. If you're looking to purchase a home, a 2nd home, an Investment property, or learn how to create a laptop lifestyle to travel and work when & where you want, this is the place. When he's not coaching and consulting, he's with his wife and two adorable children, traveling or being outdoors.
CONNECT WITH JESSE
Website: Jesse Mills
Instagram: @thejessemills
Facebook: Jesse Mills
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
Dean Rogers went from NFL to real estate contracts, facing multiple six-figure losses and still coming out on top. In this episode, he shares his story of resilience and how he built a culture of high standards, created incentives to inspire his team, and focused on clear fundamentals to bring in steady six-figure deals. Tune in for powerful insights on overcoming setbacks, embracing faith, and leveraging simple yet effective strategies to scale.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
The importance of having a clear purpose and resilient mindset when navigating career changes
Strategies when using wholesaling for immediate cash while building a portfolio for long-term wealth
Lessons from Dean's significant losses on his early investment
Fundamental qualities an investor must have during challenging times
Benefits of rewarding your team for closing six-figure deals
RESOURCES/LINKS MENTIONED
The Ultimate Real Estate Investing Podcast | Flip2Freedom.com
TWEETABLES
"The biggest thing that drives me is growth. I want to be better, but that doesn't always mean more. That could mean just being a better you."
ABOUT DEAN ROGERS
Dean Rogers is a former NFL player who found a new calling in real estate, where he's built an impressive track record over the past decade. Transitioning from the NFL to the corporate world and ultimately to real estate, Dean has completed over 675 deals and amassed an eight-figure rental portfolio in Central California. Known for his expertise in wholesaling, Dean now shares his knowledge as a coach through his Wholesaling Playbook, helping students achieve their financial goals with proven strategies. Dean was recently featured on BiggerPockets Episode 785, where he shared insights from his journey and expertise in the industry.
CONNECT WITH DEAN
Website: Dean Rogers
Instagram: @deanrogersrealestate
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
In this episode, Esteban Andrade outlines his framework for building a six- or seven-figure business in real estate. He covers valuable insights on how each stage of growth requires new skills and mindset shifts. Tune in to learn the strategic approach he uses to scale his business and how you can implement these steps for your own success.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
The power of actively seeking out and associating with the right people and resources
A step-by-step process for scaling any business through revenue acquisition and client acquisition system
Practical advice for diversifying one's business to remain competitive and successful
Benefits of learning through teaching
Why you should tailor your approach and problem-solving accordingly rather than a one-size-fits-all strategy
RESOURCES/LINKS MENTIONED
Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill | Paperback and Kindle
Willpower Doesn't Work by Dr. Benjamin Hardy | Paperback, Hardcover, and Kindle
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie | Paperback, Hardcover, and Kindle
Want more deals in your pipeline? Send "DEALS" to @estenick on Instagram for exclusive, FREE training on digital deal-making strategies.
TWEETABLE
"It is a lot of mindset of understanding that you need to become a better person because you are essentially the reflection of what your business is like." - Esteban Andrade
ABOUT ESTEBAN ANDRADE
Esteban is an online entrepreneur and business owner who has scaled his companies north of 7 figures and has the mission to bring together the most talented, most hardworking, and accomplished entrepreneurs and business owners in the online game. Esteban lives by helping people and scaling companies. He has helped hundreds of real estate investing and real estate wholesaling companies scale and gets more off-market property deals consistently every month... now he wants to interview and absorb as much actionable tips and information from high-level and successful entrepreneurs that will share how they have turned their hustles into multi-million dollar businesses online. Esteban's goal is to bring millionaires or "diamond-type" players to share the secrets of what has made them great and what has allowed them to scale and achieve massive things in their business.
CONNECT WITH ESTEBAN
Website: Hesel Media
Podcast: REIPRENEURS Podcast With Esteban Andrade | Apple Podcasts
Instagram: @estenick
YouTube: Esteban Andrade I REIpreneurs
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
Hiring virtual assistants can be a game-changer—if you know how to do it right. That's why we have Brad Bader on the show to cover everything from the discovery process to training and management, ensuring that your new team members are productive and engaged. Get the blueprint for creating a VA-powered business with less stress and more impact!
KEY TAKEAWAYS
The importance of clear systems and processes before hiring a VA
Brad's company's unique approach tailors VA services to fit each client's needs
Best practices for onboarding virtual assistants
Challenges entrepreneurs face in effectively managing and onboarding virtual assistants
The significance of leadership and management skills for entrepreneurs when working with any team members
RESOURCES/LINKS MENTIONED
Get Friday
Upwork
Fiverr
The 4-Hour Work Week by Tim Ferriss | Paperback, Hardcover, and Kindle
John C. Maxwell
Zoom
ClickUp™
REIA Radio | Apple Podcasts
TWEETABLES
"The longer somebody utilizes a virtual assistant or manages an employee, the better they are the next time they do it."- Brad Bader
ABOUT BRAD BADER
Brad Bader is the Co-Founder and CFO of Timber Creek Virtual Assistance, a company committed to providing world-class virtual support that helps businesses achieve their full potential. With extensive experience across multiple industries, Brad brings a strong financial and strategic perspective to the evolving needs of today's business landscape.
Brad's expertise enables Timber Creek to deliver innovative, customized solutions that meet the unique goals of each client—whether it's a startup in need of scalable support or an established business looking to streamline operations. As a leader at Timber Creek, Brad is dedicated to fostering growth and efficiency for clients, empowering them to adapt and thrive in a competitive market.
CONNECT WITH BRAD
Website: Timber Creek Virtual
LinkedIn: Brad Bader
Facebook: Timber Creek Virtual
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
Dive in as we explain why it's essential to build relationships before you need them. From self-storage deals to personal life, Alex reveals how proactive networking—without an immediate gain in mind—opens doors to future opportunities. This episode dives into creating a network that supports you when it matters most.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Why investing in relationships offers enduring value
Five transformative approaches for building genuine, value-based connections
How knowing what you want makes it easier to connect meaningfully with others
The value of cooperation over competition for lasting partnerships
Actionable ways to nurture and maintain relationships consistently over time
RESOURCES/LINKS MENTIONED
Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook by Gary Vaynerchuk | Hardcover and Kindle
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie | Paperback, Hardcover, and Kindle
The Go-Giver by Bob Burg | Paperback, Hardcover, and Kindle
Giftology by John Ruhlin | Paperback, Hardcover, and Kindle
The Story of the Dream 100 Strategy
TWEETABLES
"The quality of your life is the quality of your relationships."
"Lead with value, not with an ask."
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
If wholesaling seems like a maze of processes, this episode will clear things up. Discover a no-stress approach to wholesaling real estate with Nathan Payne. He shares how to overcome the challenges that trip up beginners, avoid analysis paralysis, and focus on getting your first deal done.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Payneless Flipping method: What it is and why it works in today's market
How to identify real estate opportunities when you're unsure of the value
Strategies to build trust with sellers and close deals without overcomplicating the process
Direct-to-wholesaler marketing and its advantages in creating win-win partnerships
Ways to keep your business lean and profitable while avoiding unnecessary overhead
TWEETABLES
"Wholesaling is the lifestyle of having a big team, where you got to hit everyone to catch, get all those leads, and find really good closers." – Nathan Payne
ABOUT NATHAN PAYNE
Nathan grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, but currently lives in Salt Lake City, Utah. At 19 years old, Nathan went on a church mission for 2 years in Portland, Oregon, where he strived to serve others. After his mission, he went to college at BYUI, where he discovered his love for entrepreneurship. In college, Nathan started doing door-to-door sales and soon became one of the top salesmen in the company. He ran multiple sales teams over the years and generated thousands of accounts for the company. In his senior year of college, Nathan followed one of his dreams and opened up a music venue and cereal bar in town called Skizzy's. It was a dream of Nathan's to create a place where people could come to hang out and eat a bowl of cereal. After graduating from college, Nathan worked in door-to-door sales until he decided to get into real estate. With no prior experience in real estate, Nathan decided to learn by taking massive imperfect action and by failing his way forward. For five years now, he has been the co-owner of Offer On Homes, his real estate investing company, and Investor Thrive, a coaching company dedicated to helping wholesalers and real estate investors acquire more real estate the painless way!
CONNECT WITH NATHAN
Website: Payneless Flipping
Facebook: Payneless Flipping Free FB Group: Wholesaling and Flipping Real Estate
Instagram: @nathanpayneofficial
🔊 LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE TO THE FLIP EMPIRE SHOW (PODCAST) on Apple Podcasts ▶︎ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flip-empire-show/id1120765959
📺 SUBSCRIBE TO ALEX PARDO'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL NOW ▶︎ https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
🚀 How to Buy Your 1st Storage Facility within 6-12 Months ▶︎ http://www.storagewins.com/
FOLLOW ALEX ON:
★ INSTAGRAM → http://instagram.com/alexpardo25
★ FACEBOOK → https://www.facebook.com/alexpardo15
★ LINKEDIN → https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-pardo
★ YOUTUBE → https://www.youtube.com/alexpardo
★ TIKTOK → https://www.tiktok.com/@alexpardo25
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