Sunday School Dropouts

Last week the post religious/faith deconstruction community was faced with a loss of a voice and advocate in Ryan (RL) Stollar. Ryan’s death has opened up conversations that go beyond just this moment and are causing people to reflect and reconsider grief, humanity, and the complexity of life. In today’s episode, Andrew and Laura discuss some of the themes they have observed in social media spaces, their coaching sessions, and between friends and colleagues.

While this episode will not be focusing on the specifics of Ryan’s death, we will be discussing sensitive topics such as suicide, coercive control and abuse, fundamentalism, and grief. We’ll be exploring moving beyond binary, fundamentalist thinking and moving into the gray, messy space of life, holding multiple realities, and acknowledging abuse and coercion without erasing the positive contributions of someone’s life.

If you or someone you know needs support, please consider reaching out to the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery (www.traumaresolutionandrecovery.com/available-practitioners) and schedule your FREE inquiry call with a practitioner(s) of your choice.

Laura also wrote a Substack article diving further into these dynamics; you can access that article at: www.drlauraeanderson.substack.com

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @andrew_kerbs

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call here

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so here

Hosts: 

Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

In this season finale of Sunday School Dropouts, Laura and Andrew look back on a landmark season dedicated to unpacking the pervasive and lingering effects of purity culture. Reflecting on what they learned, what surprised them, and where they find hope, Laura and andrew explore how these rigid teachings extend far beyond sexual ethics into daily struggles with body image, diet culture, adult friendships, and social media dynamics. A central focus of the episode examines the connection between neurodivergence and high-control religious systems, drawing on insights from their interview with Michelle Moseley to explain why individuals with ADHD or autism can be uniquely vulnerable to these environments. The discussion also ventures into how purity culture historically intersects with power, control, and racial eugenics, while analyzing the unexpected rise of the modern manosphere and red pill culture as a new evolution of these familiar, toxic frameworks.

The episode also tackles the deep personal work required to move past religious trauma, contrasting the intellectual act of deconstructing harmful beliefs with the arduous journey of somatic and emotional healing. Laura and Andrew discuss the protective impulse to completely burn bridges when escaping high-control environments, validating it as a necessary first response for survival rather than a reckless last resort. Highlighting a massive wave of listener feedback, including a notably strong resonance from the ex-LDS community, the conversation celebrates the collective power of shared stories. Ultimately, this finale bridges the gap between uncovering past harms and looking forward, offering listeners a compassionate roadmap for reclaiming their bodies, their boundaries, and their peace.

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @andrew_kerbs

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call here

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so here

Hosts: 

Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

In this episode of Sunday School Dropouts, host Andrew Kerbs is joined by memoirist and ex-Adventist advocate Melissa Duge Spiers to discuss her book, Holy Disobedience: Sex, Sin, and Secrets in the Biggest Church No One Knows. Melissa shares the incredible twenty-year journey of bringing her story to publication, including a decade where the manuscript sat untouched and the hurdles she faced with major publishers due to legal anxieties surrounding the Seventh-day Adventist Church. The conversation dives into the unique invisibility of the ex-Adventist community compared to groups like ex-Mormons, exploring the deep cultural conditioning that keeps these stories hidden. Through the lens of her memoir, Melissa reflects on the overwhelming reader response from various religious survivors who finally feel seen, while also discussing her appearance on Mormon Stories with John Dehlin.

The discussion also digs into the messy, personal realities of writing a memoir and navigating family dynamics after revealing buried secrets. Melissa opens up about the delicate craft of protective storytelling, changing names, and the deeply disappointing conversation she had with her elderly father regarding the book. Looking toward the future, she shares a glimpse into her upcoming projects, including a novel and a true crime memoir tentatively titled Lies Wide Shut. Ultimately, this episode serves as a powerful call for listeners to deconstruct their faith, seek specialized religious trauma therapy, and find peace within life's inherent messiness.

Guest Info: Melissa Duge Spiers

Website: www.melissadugespiers.substack.com 

Social Media (Instagram) @the.glory.whole

Get Melissa’s book, Holy Disobedience here!

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @andrew_kerbs

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call here

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so here

Hosts: 

Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

Let’s talk about sex, baby! Today sex educator and creator of the Purity Culture Dropout brand and services, Erica Smith, joins us to talk about sex, comprehensive sex education and resources if you’re needing some remedial sex education after abstinence only or purity culture “sex education”. We’ll also be sharing some prayer requests, answering listener questions and generally having a holy time!

Resources mentioned on the podcast: 

Holy Hurt Podcast series by Dr. Hillary McBride

Erica Smith:

Website: https://www.ericasmitheac.com/

IG: @ericasmith.sex.ed

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @andrew_kerbs

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call here

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so here

Hosts: 

Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

On today’s episode of Sunday School Dropouts we will be talking to Cody Harman, a certified fitness coach and nutritionist! Cody shares his story of growing up within evangelicalism and purity culture being socialized female, coming out and transitioning. Cody’s lets us in on his process of healing from the shame and harm that was caused by high control religion and offers encouragement and hope on the journey of healing. You can find Cody at the following places:

• Instagram: @mrcoachcody_scoobyprep

• TikTok: @mrcoachcody

• Facebook: Cody Harman

• Twitter: @mrcoachcody

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Codytalks11/featured

• Website: www.codyharman.com

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything 

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe

In this episode, Laura is joined by Dan Miller for his fifth visit to the show to dissect the complex intersections of modern masculinity and religious extremism. Using Senator Josh Hawley's book as a primary case study, the discussion explores why certain conservative movements choose the biblical figure of Adam over Jesus as their primary archetype for manhood. This shift reflects a broader desire for a dominant alpha male figure that aligns more closely with imperial power than the humble and sacrificial themes found in the Gospels. The conversation examines how this ideological framework feeds into a larger pipeline connecting the secular manosphere with high control religious environments, offering men a sense of certainty and hierarchy in an increasingly unstable world.

The dialogue also addresses the genuine social crises contributing to male loneliness and identity loss, such as economic shifts and a lack of community purpose. Rather than providing constructive solutions, these movements often redirect valid frustrations toward marginalized groups or a nostalgic, mythic vision of the Roman Empire. Miller and Laura explore the psychological defense mechanisms of aggression and the difficulty many men face when sitting with insecurity or trauma. The episode concludes by highlighting healthier alternatives to traditional patriarchy, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability, collaborative parenting, and the quiet strength found in caring professions and civic engagement.

Share your purity culture stories with us by leaving a voicemail or sending your story to us!

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @andrew_kerbs

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call here

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so here

Hosts: 

Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

In this deep dive into the Hulu phenomenon The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, host Laura is joined by licensed marriage and family therapist Ashley Buckner to peel back the layers of drama and reveal the complex psychological machinery underneath. The duo explores how the Mormon influencer pipeline was born from a culture of polished aesthetics and public testimony, and why the sudden shift in financial power—where women become primary breadwinners in patriarchal households—creates such volatile relational friction. From the Momtok aesthetic to the systemic roots of oversharing, this episode examines how religious conditioning prepares women for the camera while simultaneously stifling their personal development.

Beyond the viral TikToks, the conversation tackles the heavy reality of identity foreclosure and arrested development, explaining why early marriage often leads to acting out later in life. Buckner provides a compassionate, trauma-informed perspective on the cast's experiences, specifically looking at somatic symptoms of sexual trauma and the ways purity culture inflates and weaponizes the concept of cheating. Whether you are a fan of the show or a survivor of a high-control group, this episode offers a frank discussion on generational trauma, the lack of boundaries inherent in confession culture, and why some therapists actually recommend this reality TV trainwreck as a legitimate tool for deconstructing religious trauma.

Share your purity culture stories with us by leaving a voicemail or sending your story to us!

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @andrew_kerbs

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call here

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so here

Hosts: 

Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

In this deep dive into the Hulu phenomenon The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, host Laura is joined by licensed marriage and family therapist Ashley Buckner to peel back the layers of drama and reveal the complex psychological machinery underneath. The duo explores how the Mormon influencer pipeline was born from a culture of polished aesthetics and public testimony, and why the sudden shift in financial power—where women become primary breadwinners in patriarchal households—creates such volatile relational friction. From the Momtok aesthetic to the systemic roots of oversharing, this episode examines how religious conditioning prepares women for the camera while simultaneously stifling their personal development.

Beyond the viral TikToks, the conversation tackles the heavy reality of identity foreclosure and arrested development, explaining why early marriage often leads to acting out later in life. Buckner provides a compassionate, trauma-informed perspective on the cast's experiences, specifically looking at somatic symptoms of sexual trauma and the ways purity culture inflates and weaponizes the concept of cheating. Whether you are a fan of the show or a survivor of a high-control group, this episode offers a frank discussion on generational trauma, the lack of boundaries inherent in confession culture, and why some therapists actually recommend this reality TV trainwreck as a legitimate tool for deconstructing religious trauma.

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @andrew_kerbs

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call here

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so here

Hosts: 

Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

In this episode of Sunday School Dropouts, Andrew and Laura deconstruct the complex intersection of high control religion and the controversial labels of sex and porn addiction. They explore how purity culture utilizes shame-based language and abstinence-only messaging to pathologize normal sexual development, often through influential texts like Every Man’s Battle. The discussion clarifies that neither the DSM nor the WHO recognizes sex addiction as a clinical diagnosis. Instead, the hosts look at Compulsive Sexual Behavior Disorder through a scientific lens, focusing on impulse control and the nervous system rather than moral failure. By examining how these behaviors often serve as attempts to self-regulate in the face of ADHD, trauma, or anxiety, the episode reveals how the church frequently creates the very cycles of secrecy it claims to cure.

The conversation further examines the profound damage these teachings inflict on individuals and their relationships. For men, this often results in a fragmented identity and a narrative of being inherently predatory, while women are frequently burdened with hypervigilance and the responsibility of monitoring male behavior. These dynamics replace genuine intimacy with surveillance and enmeshment, eroding trust between partners. Andrew and Laura shift the focus toward a healthier path to healing that prioritizes somatic work, internal coping skills, and the reclamation of personal agency. By moving away from the "just stop" approach that consistently backfires, listeners are invited to consider a more compassionate, evidence-based understanding of sexual health and recovery.

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @andrew_kerbs

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call here

Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com 

To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so here

Hosts: 

Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs

Music by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji 

In this episode, Andrew is joined by writer and editor Halley Kim to explore the profound intersection of theology, patriarchy, and personal agency. As a former pastor’s wife within conservative Evangelicalism, Halley shares her journey of moving beyond simple theological deconstruction to dismantle the power structures that once defined her life and marriage. Together, they discuss the dehumanizing effects of purity culture and the "anti-knowing" messages that discourage women from trusting their own intuition. Halley offers a unique perspective on the professional and personal costs of questioning the status quo while navigating the slow, redemptive process of building a marriage rooted in mutual power rather than hierarchy.

Beyond her history in the church, Halley brings her extensive background in maternal healthcare as a registered nurse and doula to the conversation, drawing striking parallels between the midwifery model of care and liberation theology. She reflects on the transformative experience of finally preaching from a pulpit once forbidden to her and discusses her ongoing research into how our internal God images—whether authoritarian or benevolent—shape our real-world behavior. This conversation is a deep dive into reclaiming one's voice, the nuances of raising children with theological plurality, and the messy, beautiful work of healing after years of institutional silence.

Share your purity culture stories with us by leaving a voicemail or sending your story to us!

Guest Info: 

Website: https://halleykim.com/

Social Media: https://www.instagram.com/maybegodisamidwife/

• https://www.instagram.com/maybegodisamidwife/
• https://substack.com/@maybegodisamidwife
• https://www.halleykim.com
• Recent article for Feminism and Religion: https://feminismandreligion.com/2025/10/26/god-is-a-midwife-by-halley-kim/#more-72948
• My website and portfolio, including my writing, editing, sermons, and podcast interviews: https://halleykim.com/portfolio/
• My freelance editing business, Jigsaw Editing: https://halleykim.com/services/
• My instagram and Substack @maybegodisamidwife

This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery 

The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.

The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. 

Follow Andrew on Instagram @andrew_kerbs

Follow Andrew’s post-SDA account @lifeafteradventism

Follow Andrew’s account on neurodivergence and high control religion @divergent.faith 

Join Andrew’s Substack (Kerb Your Enthusiasm) www.andrewkerbs.substack.com 

To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call