Porn, Betrayal, Sex and the Experts — PBSE

In Episode 215, a PBSE listener asks some very-often-wondered-about questions regarding addiction and related mental, emotional and relational behaviors—

I’m wondering what comes first….the chicken or the egg? Do men who already have narcissistic tendencies (born or developed in childhood) gravitate to sex/porn addiction more frequently given their insecure nature and need for validation? Or, has excessive porn use led to an increase in narcissistic tendencies in men? Could this be one reason why some men are successful in recovery while others never find true recovery?

Mark and Steve get raw and real in addressing these questions and in seeking to correct some all-to-common misconceptions.


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 214, Mark and Steve respond to a PBSE listener who finds herself in an all-too-common situation. After several years of marriage, her spouse has owned up to his porn addiction and is in active recovery. However, during their entire relationship, his porn addiction ruined what could've been healthy, connected, mutually-satisfying sexually intimacy. Now, they both want things to be very different going forward. Here are the questions she submitted to PBSE—

-  In what ways could we reset our dating and early stages of marriage?

-  We have discussed trying to redo our dating experience by doing a partial separation and cutting out sex so that we can both have a time period of “dating” that we can look back on and be happy with and commemorate the ending of our dating redo by coming together sexually in a way that is mutually desired. Is this a bad idea?

-  Do we just need to accept that our dating, wedding, and first months of marriage were terrible and entirely shaped by my husband and his pornographic desires?

-  Our sex life has always been about him and what he wanted and was never a safe place for me to explore my own wants and/or desires. How do I learn to enjoy and desire sex with my husband after he criticized everything I did sexually before and after marriage?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 213, Mark and Steve tackle a very heart-felt and all-too-common situation submitted by a PBSE listener who is suffering under the heavy burden of betrayal trauma—while at the same time being criticized and discounted by family, friends and other people on social media. Here's what she vulnerably shared—

Mark & Steve, I have listened to every episode of your podcast and I wait on the edge of my seat the days in between them. Your words have helped my significant other and I so immensely. I can’t thank you enough for what you both are doing. I haven’t heard an episode on this topic yet… social media. I discovered my partner's porn-use on a shared iPad after we had been living together for about a year and a half. His issue has been on [she lists numerous social media sites], finding anything from semi-suggestive material to straight up porn. He agreed to stop immediately but over the last 2 years it’s been discovery after discovery and a string of lies, all relating to things he’s been looking at online. My partner has recently agreed it’s a big problem that he said he has struggled with it since 8th grade and he is now getting into therapy, D2C, and doing what he needs to heal himself. But I am constantly ridiculed and told by other people online or even some friends and family that I am just too sensitive and insecure, and they ask who am I to worry about what he does in private? Is the consumption of this sexually charged material online something that we are allowed to be hurt by? I find myself experiencing nearly every single PTSD symptom I’ve learned about. It feels like a big deal even though people try to convince me that it’s not.

Over much of our lives, many of us have heard certain "cultural slogans/attitudes" that say something similar to—"He can look all he wants, as long as he doesn't touch," or "What he does in in his private time is his business," etc.  Yet, over more than 20 years of working with the partners of porn and sex addicts, Mark and Steve have heard exactly the OPPOSITE!

In this episode, they talk passionately about what it means to have a holistically intimate relationship; what is required to be respected, cherished, exclusive, loyal, authentic . . . and many other aspects of a truly "connected coupleship."

Mark and Steve also talk directly to partners carrying the heavy burden of betrayal trauma—what are your rights; what is speaking your truth; what do authenticity and boundaries look like; why is betrayal ALWAYS "in the eye of the beholder"?

And they give invaluable guidance to porn/sex addicts in recovery—if you want to create, build and nurture TRUE intimacy with your partner—what you think and do when you are not with her is CRITICAL!   

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In episode 212, Mark and Steve respond to a tragic situation submitted by a PBSE listener. As opposed to a structured podcast, Mark & Steve spontaneously share their raw, passionate feelings as they read and comment on each part of this partner’s submission; ask a LOT of hard-hitting questions; and relate to their own addiction/recovery experiences and the experiences of the many couples they’ve worked with over the past 20+ years. Here’s the PBSE listener's submission— 

Hi guys! I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your podcast, in the darkest moments of our lives. My question—and it may have already been addressed: How can I be empathetic toward a partner who continually relapses with excessive masturbation [and porn]—rather than asking to have sex? For context, my husband and I have been together for [more than a decade and have several kids]. I suspected his addiction throughout our relationship but it wasn’t until the last 4 years that I had evidence of excessive porn and masturbation use. He has so much shame and remorse but doesn’t talk to me about it or even allow me to disclose it to anyone. It’s a nasty hurt that I must safeguard so his “image” is maintained. My sexual, emotional and relational needs are not being met, and he doesn’t seem to care. It is like a continual re-traumatizing and violation of trust when he relapses. Our agreement was that he would never do anything sexual without getting permission… to have additional accountability. Every time he asks [for sex]—if I don’t engage with him—I “give permission” for him to masturbate or to help him do so. Please help me understand this and be patient, loving and forgiving. I’m losing hope that this can actually work. I feel like I have to constantly put myself on the back burner to appease his needs and keep our family together for “the greater good.” But I feel like I’m being slowly suffocated.


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Episode 211 is in response to a very raw and heart-felt submission by a PBSE listener. She is about to turn 40, is married to a guy who struggles with porn/sex addiction and they have 3 children. About 10 years ago, she found out that he had been regularly viewing porn for the first decade of their marriage. She was devastated and let him know she considered it cheating. In the years that followed, every time she would bring it up, he promised to stop but never did. He gaslit her and claimed it was "normal" behavior. Then over the last 12 months or so, he engaged in a "trickled disclosure" about just how bad his porn/sex addiction has been their entire marriage. Finally, about a month ago, he started into serious recovery. But, over that same year, she was so deeply impacted by his betrayal that she went to every possible length (money, time and energy) to try to modify her body to compete with or match up to what he had been seeking in his porn use.  This even drove her to struggles with anorexia and a complete mental breakdown. She realized she could never win this competition/contest!

At the end of the detailed recounting of all she's been through (which was heart-breaking), she asked the following—"Will his addiction keep him from seeing me the way I so desperately want to be seen in his eyes? Or are all the signs pointing to me just never being able to be enough?"

-  Why is sex and sexuality such a high priority and singular focus in our culture?

-  What does it mean to be "sexy" and "sexual"—what are the deep needs behind these?

-  Why is it unrealistic, inauthentic and unhealthy to seek to compete with sexual fantasies?

-  After more than 20 years working with partners suffering from betrayal trauma, what have Mark and Steve found that these individuals actually and truly want/need from their addict partners?

-  How has our culture confused sex/sexuality and true, human intimacy?

-  For the partners of porn/sex addicts—In what ways can your partner choose, pursue and create safety for you? How can your partner authentically meet your wants and needs on a consistent basis? 


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 210, Mark & Steve address an issue that comes up often in porn/sex addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing—the challenges of ADHD that seem to often correlate with, and/or accompany addiction. This episode is in response to a situation submitted by a PBSE listener—

"I have heard there is a correlation between ADHD and addiction. Have you noticed this in your practice, and what is your advice to both addict and partner on how to cope and battle through both issues collaboratively? I looked into the symptoms of ADHD and some of my long term frustrations with my partner could fit that. But others don’t. It’s hard to know what could be attributed to the addiction (emotional immaturity and selfishness) versus what could be ADHD related."

-  Mark talks about his own life-long struggle with ADHD symptoms and addiction.

-  How ADHD and porn/sex addiction symptoms can correlate and cross over in a variety of ways.

-  How porn use, as well as other online practices can "fuel" already existing ADHD symptoms and vice-versa.

-  What can an addict in recovery do to also manage his ADHD symptoms/challenges?

-  What can the partner of an addict do to support him in his "dual" struggles—without crossing the line into rescuing, over-owning, playing policewoman, etc?

-  How can a couple come together to collaborate as a team in facing these issues?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Episode 209 is in response to a very complex, awkward, embarrassing, infuriating and painful situation submitted by the partner of a porn/sex addict. He IS in initial recovery, BUT when he finally started "trickle disclosing" his past "addiction behaviors," this led her to do some "detective work" to find out more. In searching his computer, phone, Internet search history, etc., she discovered a devastatingly DARK SIDE to him that she didn't know about and would never have assumed!

But, she does love him and is very weary of bringing up what she has discovered, for fear of causing him extreme embarrassment and shame. She doesn't know how to approach this! In this episode, Mark and Steve talk about this challenge from the crucial standpoint of "relationship intimacy"--not the traditional narrow paradigm of intimacy—"sex"—but true, holistic intimacy in what we often talk about as the "8 Areas of Intimacy." What level of true intimacy does this couple want to have?

What level of discomfort, awkwardness, embarrassment, confrontation, etc., are they willing to face to enjoy full, true intimacy? What does it mean to allow your partner to actually "see the whole you"? What level of "being seen" does it take for your partner to be "fully informed" to be able to "choose you." Are you wiling to do what it takes to get to the place where you can ACTUALLY CHOOSE EACH OTHER?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

This episode (#208) is in response to a very vulnerable and heart-felt submission by a PBSE listener. Here's her situation—

"You may have already covered during previous episodes and I have just not been able to find it, but could you do a podcast on emotional cheating? This was a big part of my relationship and devastated me more than finding out about his pornography habits. This woman wasn’t something he turned to occasionally, she was someone he contacted daily. All day. Even much earlier in the morning than I’d hear from him. While he was lying in bed next to me. As soon as he’d leave my side. He claims it was not an intimate connection, just his codependent need for validation, but I’m not sure I believe that. Regardless, she’s now in every memory I had with him. Even the ones I thought were good, which brings me great pain. To make matters worse it was with his ex wife who he co parents with, so he was unable to cut ties with the person he was cheating with. I’d love to hear expert advice on how to heal from it. I’m already journaling and seeking support, taking care of myself and mental health, doing all the things one can to move past it. But I wake up everyday with a literal pain in my heart that’s so heavy. I carry it around like a rock in my chest all day. I had not previously believed people when they said, emotional cheating can be worse, but I do now. Maybe you can also touch on how too much contact with someone who’s not your partner can be damaging so that addicts understand what it is as well. I’m sure partners could benefit from that as well. Thank you."

We SO appreciate this listener bringing this extremely difficult and painful situation to our attention. This is a topic for which Mark and Steve are extremely passionate and have a LOT to say!

— What is "intimacy"? Is it more than just "sex"?

— What is "Emotional Cheating"?

— What is the responsibility of the partner who engaged in emotional cheating? What does "real" change and amends look like?

— What is the healthiest approach for the partner who has been betrayed?

— What is a couples best chance to move through and forward from emotional cheating?


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 207, Mark & Steve address a situation and concern sent in by a PBSE listener who finds herself in a very painful, difficult and complex situation. Here's how she describes it—

"Hey guys, firstly thank you so much for your podcast - it’s helping more than you will ever know. My question is about separation and how to do this well. I found out four months ago, while I was 8 months pregnant, that husband of 7 years has a severe sex addiction. I moved out with our 2 year old and in with my parents, telling them everything. He & I have thrown ourselves individually into counseling & gotten support from our closest friends. However, my husband relapsed badly & I realized I needed to give him a year of full separation to see if he can change for himself, or I need to move on. How can I do this year well? What do we tell our church and wider community (our pastors know everything)? I don’t want opinions and judgement if I stay or go, but I don’t know how to live in this limbo without lying or pretending to be together! For our kids, is it better to live apart or together? I desperately need advice on boundaries and how to navigate separation with two littles! My husband is an amazing father committed to them, but his addiction got so out of control, I just don’t trust what he’s capable of, so the kids will be with me until he’s 1 year sober. It’s so so hard."

-  Therapeutic vs. Non-Therapeutic Separations

-  What do the expectations, boundaries and structure of a therapeutic separation look like? What are the potential pitfalls?

-  An "in-home" separation vs. living completely separate.

-  Creating a specific "plan for reconciliation" with specific steps, benchmarks and accountability toward reunification.

-  Setting and holding boundaries with family, friends, neighbors, etc.

-  What about the HUGE consideration of children in all of this?!


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

We know that the title to Episode 206 is hard-hitting! But, this is very close to a "quote" from a PBSE listener who is a partner in betrayal trauma healing. Here's the very raw and real situation and question she sent to us—

"Hi Mark and Steve, My husband and I are coming up on one year since D-Day. We’ve each been in individual therapy and 12 step groups: he for his addiction, me for betrayal trauma. One of the problems is that we haven’t had a formal therapeutic disclosure and more and more information about past betrayals keeps trickling out. Every time it does, my scab is ripped off. Here’s the heart of my question—the more I learn about his disgusting past, and many many betrayals, the less I want to have sex with him. In fact I feel actual physical disgust at the thought. I hope to work through my trauma and his recovery and come out the other side with a stronger relationship. My question is what do I do about the absolute physical/sexual revulsion I feel toward him? Thanks so much. I love your podcast."

In this episode, Mark & Steve directly address HOW this couple can have the best chance to "come out the other side with a stronger relationship." They talk about what each partner can do to "own their side of the street" and set and hold healthy boundaries. They also address what a proper, healthy "therapeutic disclosure" looks like and WHY it is CRITICAL that this approach replace the all-too-common "toxic trickle-disclosure."


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services