Porn, Betrayal, Sex and the Experts — PBSE

In this episode, Mark and Steve address what can often be a confusing topic for couples—when it comes to recovery, healing, boundaries and consequences, what is my side of the street vs. his side of the street? How do I know when I've crossed the line?  Here's a question sent in by a PBSE listener about this challenge—

Guys, do you have anything to share for those of us unsure of when we should be staying 'on our side of the street'? I'm hearing it but I can't make sense of where the line should be drawn. Do I step way back onto my side of the street and support his efforts even when they seem so base level and even when I sense he's drifting toward relapse? Do I congratulate him while part of me is crying out "so he bloody should"? My understanding is that I can make requests for what would make me feel safe. As in x amount of recovery work. But consequences for that wouldn't be fair on him and would be stepping onto his side of the street? As in if you don't do XYZ then I'll need to distance myself from the relationship or something along those lines. When he's not engaging much with his recovery work, I become very anxious and afraid, and start questioning whether he's up to no good or whether I should leave him. It just feels so necessary to me that he commits himself to recovery if he wants the relationship. Am I understanding right when people say stay on your side of the street then that would mean let him participate in as little recovery as he wants and I can't set consequences around that?

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Recovery from Porn/Sex Addiction and healing from Betrayal Trauma are HUGE commitments, take a long time and are HARD work. It can be easy in the early to mid stages of that journey to wonder if success is really possible and if all this "crap" we're going through is really worth it!

In this episode, Mark and Steve share their personal experiences and the experiences of working with couples all over the world—there is GREAT HOPE and YES it absolutely is WORTH IT!

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Too often, those struggling with porn/sex addiction focus primarily on their outward addiction behaviors--the "symptoms" of addiction. Many believe, "Once I get sober, I'll be good to go." While sobriety is crucially important, it is NOT "recovery." If an addict is unwilling to look beyond the addiction behaviors to the deep "core issues" driving their unwanted, destructive behaviors, the "symptoms" will just keep coming back.

In this episode, Mark & Steve talk about what these "core issues," how to identify and start working on them.

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In this episode, Mark & Steve respond to a painful situation sent in by a PBSE listener. Her spouse was caught in an affair, which uncovered 6 years of multiple affairs and other sex addiction behaviors. Her addict spouse has been in dedicated recovery for some time now and in that process he has disclosed something that is enormously hard for her to accept. Here's how she describes it—

"What he has shared in his recovery journey is that for the first time, within some of his acting out relationships, he was able to talk openly about his sexuality and find 'acceptance' [and his true sexual identity] within that (and yes, that is hard for me to hear). He can now see that that openness did not lead to true intimacy within those relationships but what he hopes for is that we may be able to move forward and build more openness into our relationship. So I guess that 'piece of himself' he doesn't want to lose is rooted in open communication. I can see some sense in that, but as a betrayed partner it is hard to find a way through, knowing where this has come from. It would feel simpler if he was saying that everything about his addiction was something he wanted to recover from and leave behind."

Mark & Steve talk openly about their own experiences with this concept of "finding a piece of ourselves" while engaged in addiction. What does this mean and how in the world can anything "good" come from the "living Hell" that addicts create through their bad choices?

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In this episode, Mark & Steve address a very common "painful" behavior that the partners of porn addicts can often engage in. A PBSE listener sent in a description of her situation:  her boyfriend is currently in recovery for porn addiction and making a lot of great progress. Like nearly all addicts in recovery, he still does have occasional slips back into porn use. He shares these openly with her and then she feels compelled to go to the same websites to view what he was looking at. Here's how she describes her pain—

I've found myself spiraling every time it [his slip] happens, and I end up either stalking the accounts of porn stars, models, Only Fans girls, or watching actual porn as a means of comparing myself, and I don't know why I do it. It almost feels comforting but it also sends me further into a spiral. He has a close friend he can confide in, and after a slip up he recovers quickly, and gets back on track, but I often feel stuck in a rut after an incident, and I'm not sure how to break this toxic cycle of comparing myself and looking at the same content he does. What do I do from here? How do I stop? Is there anything else we should be doing as a couple and individually?

Mark and Steve address her concerns and talk directly about HOW she can break free from this constantly "re-traumatizing" practice. 


Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

A PBSE listener describes a situation that many partners of addicts face. Here's how she describes it. See if you can relate—

My partner has been in recovery for only 3 months now and it was then that I found out about all of the disclosure of his addiction. He has had 2 relapses since then and has been honest about where he is in his recovery. He is in a 12 step program and has expressed that he is struggling with shame, guilt and feeling like a failure. Your podcast is truly helping me recognize I can’t control his recovery and I am only responsible for my own but sometimes the fear and insecurities are overwhelming when he is in these moments because I fear they mean he is going to act out. I know I can’t plan for them happening but I don’t know what the best way to react to him when he is honest about these relapses. I genuinely want to be supportive and I do appreciate him being honest, but I struggle with feeling like by supporting him during those moments mean I don’t have any boundaries and am enabling him by not over reacting during these moments. His relapses haven’t been cheating but because of my own betrayal trauma I am terrified that they are leading up to that. I want to be supportive to his addiction and also give him a safe space to share when/if slips happen but I don’t know the heathy or best route to take when he does disclose these moments to me.

-   Mark and Steve share personal examples of how this was in their marriages.

-  Very common for Spouses to ask this question/balance on this tightrope–What response has the best chance of him continuing to take his recovery seriously?

-  Responding to his inauthenticity with your own inauthenticity/control is not helpful!

-  How long will your “control/making him change,” carry him in his recovery?

-  Compulsion vs. Conversion in recovery

-  Be a “clear window” and a "mirror" to him–that is AUTHENTIC!

-  PUT IT BACK ON HIM as opposed to constant “outside pressure” as his motivation, which keeps him IMMATURE in his recovery!

-  Anger and control keeps the focus OFF OF HIM and drains you of all the energy that YOU NEED FOR YOUR OWN HEALING!

-  An addict that is not taking this seriously does not deserve you taking it seriously! You can’t care more than he does! 

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

This episode is in response to a situation shared with us by a PBSE listener. She is currently engaged to a guy in his mind twenties who has struggled with porn addiction since age 9 or 10 and other more severe forms of sexual addiction in later years. He IS in active recovery; seeing a therapist; working a program and has 160 days of sobriety—the longest in his life. Here's her questions—

My fear is that while he's committed to recovery right now, this might not always be the case, especially if his brain is so tightly wired this way. Although I hate this reality I'm told that slips will almost inevitably happen. I am so scared though that one day he might stop choosing recovery and a relapse will happen. Even worse, that he might physically act out since a) he's also a love addict and b) his addiction had escalated to visiting prostitutes before we met. So although he hasn't to my knowledge had sex with others while we've been together, I'm afraid that he could easily slip back into this.

My question I guess is; is there some kind of safe zone? Have you heard of many men kicking their sex addiction for many years and then just doing a complete flip where they get tired of fighting it and just stop choosing recovery? Does that happen often We understand that addiction is for life and that he'll always need to be in recovery. And right now he's very committed to that. I'm just so sacred that I'll start a family with him and that once he feels safe that I'm locked in and by then a little bored of my body, that he'll stop choosing recovery and return to sneaking these old habits on the side.

To address these questions, Mark and Steve draw upon their own personal experiences with marriage and recovery and that of many clients over the decades.

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's a raw, heart-felt submission from a PBSE listener—

Hello Mark and Steve, I am a recovering porn addict and the grateful husband of the listener whose question about foreboding joy you answered in episode 107, “How Can I Ever Dare to Trust Him Again?” If you have time, I would be grateful for your insights on the two questions below. I tried to provide context without becoming too long-winded.

I really connect with everything in episode 149, “As a Porn/Sex Addict in Recovery, How Do I Let Go of Deep Feelings of Shame & Unworthiness?” I am working hard on, and making progress with, my feelings of worthlessness in my therapy sessions and through fellowship in SAA. I believe I can change. I believe that my wife deserves an improved, authentic and integrated man. I am grateful that I have a new life, but I’m not sure that I feel like I deserve this new life. The last part of the listener’s message really hits me hard, “even if she forgives me, I’m not sure my self-worth would allow me to accept it.” This is the situation I am in right now. My wife forgave me after my 9th Step amends to her last year. But how can I forgive myself for my betrayal of her before I have given her at least 18 years of my authentic, integrated, sober self?

In our recent couples’ therapy session, our CSAT told my wife that “John is proud of his sobriety of 20 months,” but I struggle to feel proud. I feel happy, grateful, encouraged, and hopeful, but not proud. How can I feel proud that I have now done the minimum basic expectation of being faithful for 20 months when I betrayed her for 18 years?

In this episode, Mark and Steve address these great questions and the dilemma that many married addicts face!
 
Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In this episode, Mark and Steve address a "couple's issue" that is unfortunately all-too-common:  In the wake of addiction and betrayal trauma, the relationship grows stale, becomes ambivalent and indifferent—it feels like the spark and chemistry are very low or even gone.

Here's how one PBSE listener describes this situation—

As a betrayed partner (married 30+ yrs), my concern now is that since my partner has demonstrated first order change I cannot seem to establish a cohesive bond & I don’t feel the chemistry or connection to him as I once did. Sex went away 7 yrs ago when he had relapsed and we went through many separations/ disclosures/ therapy. Now we live “parallel lives”(under the same roof) trying our best not to violate reasonable boundaries. We have common interests, no resentments, but no chemistry or spark. I accept him for who he is & I appreciate him as a friend and father of our grown children and we both have separate careers. I want to move on (which I have brought up many occasions) however he is very opposed to the idea which I believe is tied to his very strict religious upbringing. I am seeking your perspective on partners who like me have worked through the tougher parts and are ready to say “it is finished.” My partner creates such a guilt trip for even entertaining the idea of a permanent separation. I sense I may be on my own in this endeavor which again is a traumatic place to be. He runs two groups for men in sex addiction and I work with addicts & partners ironically. Thanks in advance for all you guys are doing and for such an incredible podcast.  

PS: We are not at the divorce juncture (or maybe me more than him) but the point of my question was to address the “ambivalence” that a partner feels and to get some validation. Wish you both a very warm and wonderful holiday.

Mark and Steve talk raw and real about HOW to get the "chemistry and spark back" after years or decades of addiction and betrayal trauma.

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

As we look at moving into a new year, many addicts in recovery and spouses healing from betrayal trauma, wonder if their year and experience will ever be "normal" again. Will they ever be able to go to the beach or a BBQ or pool party ever again without one or both being triggered? Can we watch any movies other than G-rated without the risk of something sexual popping up? How can 2023 be any different with all the preceding years of "horrible history."

In this episode, Mark and Steve get "practical" about HOW to make the Holidays and all of 2023 a positive, hopeful, connecting experience even with the "history" looming in the background. 

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve in 3 one-hour sessions every week—addicts, spouses and couples! And live support groups on weekends, facilitated by Mark and Steve! To try a free, 2-week trial, visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services