In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon sits down with Brent McCann, founder of the True North Retreat, to talk about the rising tide of men’s retreats—and what it takes to make them successful and sustainable. Brent shares how he transitioned from corporate HR into the retreat space, the lessons learned from his first Sedona retreat (including the power of trusting the process), and how he’s now crafting a profitable, aligned retreat business.

They dive into:

• Why men book differently than women—and how to speak directly to them
• Pricing strategies that work (and how Brent raised his profit margin from 1% to 30%)
• How to design high-impact experiences that create transformation and build community
• What it looks like to scale retreats with intention, alignment, and purpose

Brent's upcoming True North Men's Retreat in Austin (Oct 23–26) is designed for men at a crossroads—ready to step out of the noise, zip-line into clarity, and walk away reconnected to purpose. 

Connect with Brent: https://truenorthretreat2025.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats 
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

---------------------------------------

Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon  00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon. I am super stoked about my guest today. Before we started recording, I told our guest that I don't have enough of them on my show or enough of them. You know that I see in the retreat space. So welcome Brent to the show. I'm so excited you're here.

Brent 00:00:44  Thank you. Shannon, it's my pleasure to be here. I appreciate the time.

Shannon  00:00:48  Yes. So Brent is a retreat host. And what I meant by there's not enough of them, or at least I don't see enough of them. And so maybe it's just not on my radar as much as it should be, is that there's not enough men hosting men retreats, in my opinion, and Brent hosts men retreats that look absolutely fantastic.

Shannon  00:01:06  But I don't want to take away too much of your thunder, Brent. So why don't you just tell us all about who you are, what you do, and what brought you to where you are now?

Brent 00:01:13  Absolutely. Thank you. So, I'm a previous corporate, employee. I was a, you know, a mid senior level HR leader for about ten years working in corporate America. Before that, I was in the car wash industry working as an operations leader. So for for like 15, 20 years, I was working for the man. And I got to the point where, last year, well, about two years ago, I went to an event out in Austin and I was really moved by it. And in that moment, sitting with 100 people, I looked to my friend and I said to him, I said, listen, man, I'm going to do this someday. I want to do this kind of thing. And I didn't know how it was going to happen. I didn't know what to expect.

Brent 00:01:53  But, what ended up working out was that, you know, last year, you know, I made a pretty good deal on a real estate thing that I was doing on the side. And about Q3, Q4 of last year, I had this epiphany that like, if I wanted to, I could probably take a year, year and a half off and see if I could grow this, this retreat business into something.

Shannon  00:02:15  And yes.

Brent 00:02:16  Yeah. So it was really, it was exciting and nerve wracking at the same time. Right? You know, it's like, I have no idea what I don't know. yep. But I trust. Right? You know, I trusted and, I actually did a, I went to this breathwork, certification thing, and I came back from that in December of last year, and I was all of a sudden I was in a meditation after doing a breathwork. And it was like I felt like, you know, the universe just zapped into my head and was like, you should do a men's retreat.

Brent 00:02:47  And I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3 00:02:51  I didn't think about that. But, you know, I was like, all right. Like, let's, let's look at this.

Brent 00:02:55  And, and but I didn't know where, you know, like I had coordinated things in corporate HR. Before, you know, corporate retreat type things, but not in this space. And I felt this, this urge to go to Sedona. And I had never been to Sedona before. I knew nothing about it. Literally had no idea where it even was. But I was like, okay, that's cool. Like, let's go. and, you know, six months later, you know, I had my first retreat. So, you know, it's been a journey. You know, it's, it's a it's a gift. It's really what it comes down to. So, you know, I don't wanna get too long winded on it, but I.

Shannon  00:03:28  Know that this is great. Okay, so there's so many things that happened just in this first snippet.

Shannon  00:03:34  the first thing is, is, like, you definitely received your download because for you to have a download that says, go to Sedona and you've never even been there or didn't even know where it is. that's definitely a download. It's not usually what I would recommend unless it's a download. Right. Because, you know, we we typically want to host at least our first retreat. and I'm even a fan of saying all retreats in places we've been to at least one time. However, there are definitely situations like this where something is speaking to you and you've just got to follow it. And I love this so much. Let's talk about the fact. Steve, here's the thing, guys. What we're going to talk about today is Brent's recap of his first retreat, and then now how he's going to learn from that retreat and go forward. Because I think a lot of people, Brent, they think my first retreat, I'm going to make $1 million and it's going to be knocked out of the park.

Shannon  00:04:26  And I also think there are a lot of people out there making it sound like you can do that, like you can just all of a sudden be an instant success. But the truth is that there's no such thing in any industry. I don't care what it is. If corporate, small business, large business, it doesn't matter what it is. You're typically not an instant success unless you consider the learning, the success, which I do. Right? Because that's what those first few retreats are. At least the first 1 to 3 are learning experiences and their investments for future ones. So I would love, Brent, for you to tell us what happened on your first retreat and what was the biggest downloads and learnings you got from it?

Brent 00:05:04  Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, the the goal here was just to break even. You know, I, I, you know, I remember listening to episodes that you had shared and even in your book where it says like don't go too far away.

Brent 00:05:16  And I'm like, oh my God. Like I live in Western New York. I'm going to this, this place I've never even been to. Right. So, you know, like, I booked a flight and I got out there two weeks later and I scoped it out, and and things just really aligned very well. but really, you know, what I learned from this was in the retreats, probably. And as with anything new, who you're coming up against is not the people that I was advertising to or, you know, my family. I was coming up against myself. You know.

Shannon  00:05:47  This? Yes.

Brent 00:05:49  Vulnerable space to be in, financially vulnerable, energetically vulnerable. And, you know, and to know that, like, not everybody catches the, you know, picks up what you're throwing down there. Right? Like, people are like, what the hell are you talking about? You're doing this, you know? So, yeah, I really I invested in a program. that was okay.

Brent 00:06:11  Like, I spent a lot of money on it, but it was. It had a pretty good return for me, at least, to get me familiar, because I didn't have, like, an Instagram following. I didn't have a LinkedIn following. I, I'm not on Facebook that often. So how do you do this? Right? and that was part of facing off with myself is like overcoming this limit, these limiting beliefs that I need those things in order for that to happen. And, I'll be honest with you, I was going to I was going to throw it out, like I that got to be I had one person sign up. It was the end of March. the, the, the agreements that I signed were coming into the point were like, okay, you're you're within 90 days, you're within 45 days. You need to, you know, make sure you get a deposit. You're on the hook for this. And, I just didn't see it happening and I just totally I gave up, and I was going to take the website down.

Brent 00:07:03  And I remember thinking, you know, I've got it. I'm going to take the website down, on like Thursday or no, it was like a week before. And then all a sudden I'm like, I'll just wait. I'll wait a little bit. I'm going to have this meeting with a friend and then we'll see what happens. Well, before this meeting with my friend, I'm making breakfast one morning and I get this text alert and I'm like, what the hell is this from? And I look, and somebody had actually registered for the event like a straight cold registration. And all of a sudden I had this moment and it's like, wait a minute, maybe that vision from a couple months ago is true. Maybe this like, maybe there is something out there that's matching what people need or what men need, and maybe I should try a different route. And so it brought up this sense of inspiration. and then I signed up, 4 or 5 other people within two weeks.

Shannon  00:07:49  Like it just.

Shannon  00:07:50  Wow.

Brent 00:07:51  Yeah. Yeah, it was really powerful. so, you know, from that lens, like, I learned, like, if I try to force it, it's going to be way more difficult than if I just, you know, take the right action and allow it to kind of manifest or create itself and create the outcomes. Yes. And then also, you know, even just from the the overall experience, like I had a whole budget thing written out, I, I'm a numbers guy. So I was looking at a lot of that, and, and trusting the process that, you know, like I, I knew my numbers well enough so I could speak to things confidently. I knew it was going to be within like $500 plus or minus, so I was okay with that. and then and then really the, the self-efficacy of realizing, right, like in the midst of the retreat, realizing I'm doing it like, wow, this is really happening, right? Seeing other people's lives start to change in a matter of four days.

Brent 00:08:44  And then afterwards, that feeling of, you know what? I can do this. And now after the response that I got from them, I'm like, I think I should do this more. And so that's what led me to to building into this second retreat now.

Shannon  00:08:58  Okay, Brent. First of all, congratulations. You've done your first retreat and in my opinion, it was a huge success. Also, I want to harp on a little bit or not harp on. That's not the right word, but I want to just celebrate. I guess, again, this mindset shift that you had, because that's really what sounds like happened when you got that second, that second booking. I'm a big fan, I tell. I like to tell people who are who are new in the business that if you got one booking and it's an aligned booking, right, it's you got one aligned booking, then there's others out there. You're just either not speaking the right language, taking the right action, etc. and so forth.

Shannon  00:09:37  I also like to say, now if you've got none, then we need to revisit what what your words are and who you're talking to and all the other stuff. But if you get one, at least aligned one. The other thing is you said something really powerful. My opinion is you can manifest and attract and allow all you want, but if it doesn't have action assigned with it, then it's just daydreaming to me. And daydreaming is fine, but it won't equate to what you just said happened in your mindset shift. So another congratulations, because that's really cool. So yay. First retreat. Nailed it. Nailed the mindset shift. Now coming out of that, and also, I am so glad that you got to see some of the transformation for other people through the space that you're holding, because that's what you're going to hold on to, Brent, as you continue to grow your business, because now you're going to based upon our conversation before we start recording, you're going to build this into a profitable machine.

Shannon  00:10:37  And in order to do that, you're going to run into more obstacles. The mindset is going to get a little Willy Wonka. And we'll talk about that and and your plans. But but you're just you will naturally. That's what happens when we are on the precipice of growing big. But you're going to hold on to that whole like, I saw what this does. I know the value of what this is like. I'm just I'm a big believer that we can have impact and income. They don't have to be exclusive. And so anyway, so share with me now like what are we doing to make sure that it's profitable. What are some changes or what are some things that you're doing.

Brent 00:11:15  100%. You know, like I there were things that we did in like Sedona, an inexpensive place to be. Like, I didn't know that. I know that now, you know, and there's there's times a year to be there and times of year that you don't want to be there. And, you know, so what I really took away from this, like I kind of did like what I call like an after action report.

Brent 00:11:33  Right. So when I was in the military, after every mission, you look back and you say, okay, what was it that we did? What did we do? Well, what could we do differently? Right. So after doing this, what I really looked at was like some things were they didn't really have the impact, you know, like. so for example like we went on like this Jeep tour, like it was nice, it was fun. But like the guys weren't raving about it, it was just more of like nice to have now the zipline tour. Everybody loved it. Even those that were afraid of it and overcame themselves there. They loved it. So, you know, when I look at that, you know, I think about like, okay, because part of my modus operandi is every day we're going to do something off site. So like we go to hotels, I like to stay in nicer places. so we're going to stay at, like, a nice hotel.

Brent 00:12:17  We're going to go out, we're going to do something off site. We're going to come back during the day. We're going to train, you know, have teachings, all that kind of thing. And then we're going to go out for nice dinners at the same time. And what I realized was like, as I, as I build into Austin, like, I don't need to, like we're going to do ziplines. Like for sure. Right. Like that's going to be awesome. But like I looked at like, oh, maybe we could do horseback riding and we could do this and we could do that. And I'm like, but does it need to happen? Right? So like when I look at it and I realize something's going to cost $2,000, but is it really going to align with what I'm teaching? Is it going to make an impact and help drive home what we're learning? Right? Or is it, you know, kind of like how, you know, you talk about like, yeah, people want to know like the activities, but they're looking for the feeling.

Brent 00:13:02  They're looking for the transformation more than anything else. Right? So now as I look at it, what I'm looking for now is, is what what what are the critical few that are going to really land, right. And you know, for me ziplines that that's something that lands because even if you love them, you're still going to get a rush of adrenaline. There's still going to be some type of emotional response in our body. and you know just I like to have something a little bit. That's, that's specific to the area too. Right. So like when we go out to dinner we're not going to like KFC. We're not going to McDonald's. We're going to go to nice places that are in the area. and, and you know, one I want I want the guys to feel good. Right. So yeah, as I look at that now and then I look at how I'm pricing it, like I knew I was underpriced. I didn't know how much until I was actually on the retreat.

Brent 00:13:52  And I remember, like, we rented like this big SUV and we're driving to this, I don't even know what we were doing, but I remember driving with all the guys in the truck, and and I'm like, this is like a $5,000 retreat. Like, they're like, I would pay. Not because I'm biased, but like, I would pay $5,000 for this. And I was charging, like 335. Yeah. So yeah, as I look at this now, now I've created, you know, the packages that range between 3500 to 5000. and then I'm adding the value. Right. Like, it's it's all dependent on what value you want out of it. And then also with what I've reduced from, from an expense standpoint. Now that margin went from really, like, maybe 1% to now I'm targeting more like 20 to 30% margin. And that.

Shannon  00:14:38  Gives me, yeah.

Brent 00:14:39  Bigger wiggle room and confidence to step into it because I know what it's worth.

Shannon  00:14:44  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss.

Shannon  00:14:49  I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Yes, yes, I noticed this. So Brent and I were talking before we started recording about. it's just my philosophy. Not all hosts are like this, but I'm not a discount person. I'm just. I absolutely am anti discount. And I love though, Brent. How you. I mean, I really loved how you built the value into each offering. So it's kind of like okay here's your first soft touch point you which includes this. And it's you know, 3500 or whatever it was.

Shannon  00:15:54  This touch point includes these extra things, and it's 45, you know what I mean? Like, I just I absolutely love that I think that you are positioning yourself in such a way that it is going to be beautifully aligned for the guest to get what they want out of it, and then you to feel energetically aligned in a financial way for what you're offering. Right? Yeah, yes. Because the ones that are paying more, they're getting more from you. and so it's it's a really beautiful exchange. So it sounds like you're totally aligned. Tell me the difference about planning for Sedona, which, by the way, I'm really glad to hear that you at least went and visited the spot before you hosted there.

Brent 00:16:33  So yeah.

Shannon  00:16:33  Yeah, that really helps. And anybody who's listening, if you're planning a retreat and you've never been there, you've I'm telling you, you've got to make a site visit. It just makes all the difference in the world. and it just really does. But tell me the difference is in planning.

Shannon  00:16:47  Now, your second retreat with a different location. like, what are some things that have come up for you in this process?

Brent 00:16:54  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what's nice now is I kind of know the recipe, right? Like, I kept everything the same. Like I'm looking like on my monitor to my right. Has everything written out different? Tabs on the worksheet. I know exactly what I'm looking at. And I've built this. I mean, you don't get to where. Not that I was, like, super high up, but like, you don't achieve success in air in corporate unless you know how to be a business partner, which means working with operations leaders, figuring out how to, you know, make money with the people. You have those kind of things. So when I looked at this and I'm like, okay, well, then I know what I need. I mean, I've done this with entrepreneurs, I've done this with fortune 500 companies. I need to do this for myself and in some ways kind of put myself in check, too, like if I'm dreaming, like I had a conversation with someone and they're like, oh, we're going to do this, and then we're going to have affiliate marketing and this and that.

Brent 00:17:43  And I'm like, hang on a second. Like, let's get let's get up on our two feet first before we start thinking about this. You know, I love the energy, but let's just, you know, little reality check. so, you know, when I look at this now, I've got this the recipe. At the same time, I've been to Austin like 3 or 4 times in the last year, year and a half. So like, I'm familiar with where I want to go, I know that I don't want to take everybody out on sixth Street. If I want them to stay sober and have a really good, you know, experience besides having like a party until way late and feeling hungover. Right? So, yes, you know, so I know the spots where I want to go, you know, I know I knew the type of hotel we wanted to stay at. And so this time, it's a lot easier because I've been there, you know, and now and as I build into next year, I'm going to have several other retreats.

Brent 00:18:31  And in some of these areas I've not been. So I look at it as it's an investment now I need to get out there. I need to to move and shake. I need to talk to people. You know, I've got three trips this summer to go to different places because I so firmly believe that that there's an energetic calling for this type of work, that it's just a matter of like where and when and how. So that how has become a lot easier now that I've gone through the one.

Shannon  00:18:58  How, yes, yes to all of that. Well, We'll tell our listeners. Who is your ideal guest? And then tell us about your upcoming retreat.

Brent 00:19:06  Absolutely. Thank you. So the ideal guest is obviously a man. it could be anywhere. you know, typically what I've seen, you know, in this last retreat was anywhere from their, their early 40s to their mid 60s, you know. for me, it doesn't really matter if the the key of what I look for is, are you at a crossroads in your life? Do you know that you want something different? Do you know what that is? And maybe it's just that you're not sure of how to get there.

Brent 00:19:32  And if that's the case, then you're my ideal client. Because what I look at is, you know, I have a balance. I, I don't get super woo woo because especially as men, we don't typically want to get into that woo woo space. And you know, and I should also add that my ideal client is somebody who really hasn't been in this space before, that they haven't been to a retreat before. If they have been, maybe it's in a corporate background. So now what I'm doing is I'm giving them some of the neuroscience behind And change some of the things that have been found over the last ten, 15 years as it relates to meditation and breathwork, and then also tying that into a little bit of the woo woo just to get, you know, dab their dab their toes in it a little bit, but not shock the nervous system to.

Shannon  00:20:15  Love.

Brent 00:20:16  It. I don't want them walking out going like I'm never doing this again. You know I want.

Shannon 00:20:20  I love it.

Brent 00:20:21  You'll walk around, you know, walk out saying like, you know what? It was the the best balance of of opportunity. I learned some things. I tried some new things. And as a result, this is what's happened for me.

Shannon  00:20:31  I love it. Awesome. So when is your next retreat? We know it's in Austin. When is that happening?

Brent 00:20:37  Yeah, it's October 23rd through 26th of this year. and yeah, we're going to kick off. We're going to stay at this beautiful hotel just in the hill country, about 20 minutes south of Austin. and then we're going to kick off, like I said, ziplining all the fun stuff there. But more importantly than anything, we're going to have a strong sense of community. We're going to have anywhere from 8 to 12 guys that are going to get together, you know, from all over the country and they're here to. To better themselves. They're here to get through whatever's been blocking them. And that, to me is the most important part, is that transformation truly happens when you get people that are looking for it and are hungry enough to to sit at the table and see what happens.

Brent 00:21:18  So I'm very excited for it. I think it's going to be incredible.

Shannon  00:21:21  Well, hell yes Brent, all of that information will be linked in the show notes, so please check it out and share it with someone who you think might really benefit from this, because I can tell from the website, from your history, and from your energy that this is going to be an incredible retreat. So thank you so much, Brent, for sharing your history, your lessons, and your upcoming offerings. It is so appreciated.

Brent 00:21:43  Thank you Shan, I really appreciate the opportunity.

Shannon  00:21:45  Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at The Retreat. See you next time.

Retreat not filling up? You’re not alone—and it’s probably not your price.

In this power-packed episode, Shannon Jamail is joined by pricing and profit strategist Erin Haag to break down the real reasons most retreats fail to sell out—and exactly how to fix it. From outdated marketing approaches to misaligned pricing strategies, they unpack the blind spots that hold retreat leaders back from profitability.

Erin shares her proven formula for pricing retreats using math over emotion—and the key profit margins every retreat business should aim for. Shannon and Erin also talk about why transformation sells more than price, the importance of daily sales activity, and why being in the right rooms with high-achieving peers can change everything.

PLUS: Erin shares a free resource for retreat leaders—her Top 5 Tips for Hosting Profitable Retreats.

Erins Top Five Tips: https://luxuryinbusinessretreats.mykajabi.com/top-5-tips-1

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join Shannon in London 
• Join our LinkedIn Group

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Spotify

Most retreat leaders aren’t just undercharging… they’re under-profiting. In this powerhouse episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Leni Cavazos—event strategist, loyalty marketing expert, and former Ritz-Carlton powerhouse turned retreat business mentor.

Together, they unpack why up to 90% of retreats aren’t actually profitable—and how to shift that.

You’ll learn:

• Why retreat leaders must treat their business like a business (not a hobby)
• What loyalty marketing actually is (and how to start it from day one)
• The biggest pricing mistake even experienced leaders make
• Why your transformation container is worth way more than a fancy vacation
• How alumni can become your secret sales team

This episode is a must-listen for retreat leaders ready to stop surviving and start scaling.

🎁 Bonus: Leni shares how to get her free eBook on selling retreats to past clients.

About Leni:

Leni Cavazos is the leading authority on building 6-figure retreat businesses. With over 18 years in global marketing, brand strategy, and high-level event production, she’s behind the success of over 100 retreats worldwide. Leni teaches coaches and entrepreneurs how to scale with strategy, precision, and purpose—no guesswork, no fluff.

Free Offer: https://theretreatplanner.com/loyaltyebook 

Loyalty on Repeat How to Sell Your Retreats With Past Clients Ebook

Connect with Leni: https://theretreatplanner.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

---------------------------------

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon  00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. This is Shannon, and today I'm so excited to have a fellow retreat professional on the podcast today. Our paths have definitely crossed in different ways, and now we get to connect in person, sort of. We'll say sort of because we are recording on zoom. But welcome, Lenny to the show.

Leni 00:00:45  Thank you so much for having me. Shannon, I'm so excited to be able to talk more about retreats.

Shannon  00:00:50  Me too. I mean, anytime I get to get with another professional and talk business, it's like, I don't know, Christmas. It's just so, so fun.

Shannon  00:00:58  So, This is Lenny Cavazos, and I want you to first just start off by telling us about yourself. What brought you to this space? I don't know, just a little bit about who you are.

Leni 00:01:08  Oh, yes. Of course. So I started actually in the space of events many, many, many years ago. I started when I was 16 years old working at events, and it was absolutely amazing. I love being in person with people because of the connection that you can create. And that led me actually to move to the Middle East. I was living in Dubai for six years, and I was working at the Ritz-Carlton, where I rebranded nine restaurants and the spa, and I made it snow in the desert. And it was absolutely wonderful. And one of the pieces that actually is going to be very big in our conversation today is loyalty marketing. So after I was at the Ritz-Carlton, I actually moved to Marriott's corporate office for Middle Eastern Africa, and I was working in a team that launched Marriott Bonvoy.

Leni 00:01:54  So for those who do not know what Marriott Bonvoy is, it's a loyalty program for people to who stay at Marriott hotels. Basically, the more you stay at their hotels, the more the rewards you get. From free breakfast to room upgrades to invitations to crazy, crazy events. And I was in charge of running some of those crazy, crazy events for loyal customers. So I hosted a dinner in front of the Giza pyramids, at dinner in the Summer Palace of the King of Saudi Arabia, and it was a private concert for Craig, David, you name it. But the main focus of this was really to create connection with our customers, because loyal customers spend 67% more than non loyal customers. Now, when the pandemic hit and everything changed, I was trapped in my apartment on the 52nd floor with a beautiful view, but I could not leave unless I had a permission slip from the police. And that was the moment where I decided I wanted to do something different. I was like, I do not want people making decisions for myself.

Leni 00:02:58  So I move myself back to Mexico, my hometown, and I actually started attending retreats. Right. So something that brings me, I guess, a little bit out of a lot of other retreat coaches into this space is that a lot of coaches started because they were hosting retreats, and then they start teaching how to host your own treats. My story was not like that. I started attending retreats that changed my life, and then I started creating connections with those retreat leaders. And there was this very specific retreat for women that I attended that literally changed who I was, my life. It got me to reconnect with my femininity. It was just beautiful. So at the end of the retreat, I asked them, so when is the next one I want to bring my mom, my friends. And they were like, no, we're not having a next one because we didn't even break even. How is this possible? You had 13 women at your retreat. And then I realized there was a big problem in the transformational world.

Leni 00:03:59  And because I. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, right?

Shannon  00:04:04  Yes.

Leni 00:04:06  And then, because I am very curious, I couldn't help myself. And I started interviewing retreat leaders to figure out what was going on out there, to figure out what was the missing link from creating transformation, serving people, to actually running your retreats like a business?

Shannon  00:04:23  Yes.

Leni 00:04:25  Big, big difference. So after interviewing over 100 retreat leaders and I keep doing a lot of market research as I go, I've started this over five years ago. I can tell you that over 70% of retreat leaders do not profit from their retreats. And that's just so sad.

Shannon  00:04:41  I would guess, to be quite honest with you, that it's even higher than that. I really would, I would, I would guess it's closer to 80 or 90% based on the people that I talked to as well. So and it is it's absolutely to me it's devastating, but it's also such a disservice.

Leni 00:04:57  Yes, I always tell them, like, do you want to go back to your 9 to 5 job instead of actually doing what you're meant to be doing in the world, because you don't treat your business like a business and you treat it like a hobby, you know, I'm here to serve, and it doesn't matter if I don't make any money.

Leni 00:05:13  And the reality is that retreats takes so much time and effort and energy, and there's so transformational. Like people change their lives when they go to retreats. Why wouldn't you also profit from it?

Shannon  00:05:24  I totally, totally agree with you. this is you're speaking my language on so many levels. I struggle greatly with anybody who's in this industry and and saying, you know, that they're either a not making a profit, that they don't want to make a profit. That's somebody who just is like, okay, we're not even in the same we're not even in the same city, let alone, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's just not even whatever. because you do you get a lot of that language in this, in this business, in this industry of like profits are evil or money is evil or any kind of bullshit like that. I just don't play that game. but then the flip side of that part is they just don't know how to run a business, right? So there's the attitude and you can't fix attitude.

Shannon  00:06:07  They've got to figure that part out. They've got to do them inner work. They've got to figure out what their money obstacles are, whatever that is. The other part of it is they just don't know how to make a profit. And that can be fixed, right? That can be learned. That can be taught. and it sounds like that's something that you help people do.

Leni 00:06:25  Yeah. So for me, it's all about like like my core messaging is like sold out and profitable. And the reason it's like, and I don't even really, really like I'm not like your retreat does not need to be sold out to be profitable, but you do want to be able to sell. And a lot of people lack sales skills. And it doesn't mean that you need to have these more like phone marketing person getting angry at you because you don't buy from them, right? And we have a misconception that selling is an act of service and that you're taking away from people if you do not offer your services.

Shannon  00:07:03  Yeah, there's a lot of misconceptions about selling. and it's it's it's unfortunate, but it's fixable. as long as somebody is willing to open up their mindset, one of the things that you mentioned right at the beginning, and I know it's the topic that we really want to focus on today, because I think you and I could talk about things for hours and hours. but one of the main things that I'm really excited to chat about is loyalty marketing. And I know that you have a lot of experience in loyalty marketing. and I'm really passionate about it, so I'm super excited to delve into that part, which also aligns with sales, because there's absolutely a sales process in there. But let's talk about that. Talk to me about the importance of loyalty marketing and how it can really help you grow your business.

Leni 00:07:46  Well, first I would like to start by saying what loyalty marketing means for those who might not be aware of the concept because it's a very, very simple concept. Loyalty marketing is customer relationship management.

Leni 00:08:00  That's what it means. It's how you manage the relationships with your customers. So they want to come back. They want to buy from you again. At the end of the day, it's all about creating connections. It's about creating this rapport, building like know and trust. So they're like, if they have to decide, am I going to this retreat or this other retreat? It's a no brainer. So loyalty marketing is very, very powerful. And for me, it's my favorite type of marketing because it's all about building relationships. It's about nurturing those relationships that exist and not nurturing the future ones. Now, a lot of people might consider that loyalty marketing starts the moment they purchase something from you, and then you resell them. But for me, loyalty marketing starts from the moment someone becomes aware that you exist.

Shannon  00:08:54  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable.

Shannon  00:09:09  Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. That's interesting. I'm glad that we're bringing it up that way, because in my brain, loyalty marketing is nurturing the relationships I already have. So, for instance, I have what I call an alumni group. These are people who've all attended one of my retreats over the last 15 years. And so my alumni is like who I consider loyalty marketing. They've. But by the way, loyalty marketing can be whatever we decide it's going to be. But that's like for me, it's like my alumni, they get a special code, they get special extras, they get a special gift bag when they come. It's kind of like if you've ever been on a Disney cruise, you're your second cruise.

Shannon  00:10:12  You get like special things left on your bed, your third cruise you get it gets elevated each time you attend a cruise, like your goodies get elevated, your access gets elevated, everything gets elevated. And that's the kind of the same thing that we do for our alumni group is that it gets elevated. And then every other year we have an alumni only retreat like no one else can come unless you've been an alumni. And that is a pure party recognition. Surprises, like, it's just an absolute blast. and so that's where my brain went with loyalty marketing. So I'm really excited because I do understand, though, this concept of as soon as there's a connection point of any way. That also could be loyalty marketing.

Leni 00:10:51  Yes. So your regular way to see loyalty marketing would be they purchased, then they repurchased and they repurchased. And the more they purchased, the higher the benefits they get. And this is like the core concept in a way. And that's why there is a lot of memberships.

Leni 00:11:08  And then you get points, right. A loyalty marketing program that anyone can relate with is Starbucks, right? The more coffees you get, the more rewards you get. Right. You get free coffee and then more and more and more and more and more. So that is the way. But and that's the when the moment when you get I would say when someone repurchases from you like and we call it retention. Right. So when someone stays with you, that's for the moment where you see the benefits and reap the benefits of all your loyalty marketing efforts, but that does not mean that you do not begin the relationship and nurturing them to become loyal customers before that. The way. I don't know if you want to share something.

Shannon  00:11:49  No, no, I was just going to say I love that idea in that concept. Because as soon as they've had any kind of touchpoint, it is time to nurture that relationship.

Leni 00:11:57  Exactly. So I like to see it in a very simple way. So when someone becomes aware of us on a social media post, on an ad, on a podcast episode, we are creating a one sided relationship.

Leni 00:12:11  We're putting out content and that other person is consuming it. And then from that moment, they will decide if they like you or they don't. As simple as that. They're like, oh, I want to see more of this person or I'm not really that interested. So if you lose them from the beginning, then they're not your potential clients anymore. They left the pool, right? They left your funnel everything out. It's out of there, right? They're not in your space anymore. So nurturing loyalty, marketing from the beginning, even for people who do mini purchases, right? Like, I send sometimes private messages to people who buy like a product is $17. And I send messages to check. Hey, did you receive my my loyalty book? How was it? What was the biggest learning that you received? Sometimes people will answer, sometimes people won't. And it's okay. I don't do it because I'm expecting an answer. I am doing it because I'm building relationships from an e-book that is free, because I care about these people who want to host retreats, who want people to come back to the retreats, who want to have profitable retreats.

Leni 00:13:24  And because I care, I show up and I show up in different levels of proximity. Right? And this is and I know maybe I'm talking a little bit in the technical space sometimes. So for those who are you listening, I hope it's clear enough. But different layers of proximity, right? So when someone comes, let's say to your book they might get an email from you or your assistant. And that's kind of it. It stays in that's in that realm, right? That's the amount of proximity that you're getting with them. Then later on, if they buy one of your courses, right, one of your programs, then maybe they're in live zoom sessions with you. So they get at a different level of proximity. The relationship that you're building has more touchpoints. And then let's say someone then comes to your retreat. But because they were on your group program, then they get a one on one session with you. Shannon.

Shannon  00:14:22  Right.

Leni 00:14:22  And higher level of proximity and then on and on and on.

Leni 00:14:29  But we can begin our journey to create loyal customers from the beginning. For example, my podcast, How to Run Profitable Retreats. I have a lot of loyal customers that if I don't post an episode on the week, they will send me an email and be like, Laney, did something happen?

Shannon 00:14:48  I love that.

Leni 00:14:50  And it's because it's a one sided conversation that then becomes there is a place where they respond, but we do not want to start just nurturing relationships. Once they bought we want. Yeah, from the beginning.

Shannon  00:15:07  I totally, totally, totally love this. one of the things I've talked about on one of my previous shows was we spend a lot of time in this industry, marketing, marketing, being throwing a lot of content out. Well, hopefully you are. Hopefully you're throwing content out, and it's good content, and it's valuable content and it is speaking the language to the proper audience. So hopefully you're doing that. And then the retreat leader is thinking, well, that's selling.

Shannon  00:15:33  I just threw a bunch of information out. But it's not. That's marketing. Selling is anybody who's interacted with that information. You then follow up with them and you start what you're talking about, which is the the nurturing a relationship. It's this or as you will, loyalty marketing even. But it's really nurturing a relationship and it starts the minute there is a connection, a true connection. I also love that you said if they drop out, they're not your people. That's so important to me, Lenny, because I'm all about attracting the audience that you align with. And that's not everybody. Like, not everybody is going to listen to my podcast and be like, oh, that's the person I want to, you know, hear or be in the room with or whatever. Like, they're not they're not going to like how I talk or how I believe or, or how I run my business. That's okay. I want to attract the people who align with me. Maybe I challenge them. Challenging is fine, but alignment with that as well.

Shannon  00:16:30  And so I love that you're like some people will just drop off. We're not chasing the ones that are dropping off. I'm not a big believer of that. We don't go chasing people who are dropping off. That means it's not a fit. No problem. I wish them well on the next journey that they find the right fit with. but yeah, I love this whole concept of, you know, really making sure that we nurture that relationship at that first touch point. And I know for a fact and I know you know this too. It's not happening in our industry. We're just putting information out there and then doing nothing else with it, and then sitting back and going, well, my retreats not feeling.

Leni 00:17:07  Yes, like. But I posted on Facebook groups and no one replied to me.

Shannon  00:17:12  Yes, that.

Leni 00:17:15  Right. Yeah. Everyone talks about the, you know, the the post, the post and pray kind of thing. Right? And it is so important in these, in this industry to understand that we need to run our business like a business, like when I was going through a lot of these interviews, a lot of people were like, well, as long as it pays for my trip.

Shannon 00:17:35  Oh God, please don't say that.

Leni 00:17:38  I was like, what?

Shannon 00:17:40  No, I.

Leni 00:17:41  Just might as well just go on your trip on your own. Find the money somewhere else.

Shannon  00:17:45  Oh, my gosh, that's way less of a headache. That's way less work. And oh my gosh. Yeah. So this I get super, super worked up about because it does a disservice to everybody else in the industry who is wanting to make an impact and an income. And they can be done at the same time. They're not exclusive an impact and an income. And the transformation that you talked about that's happening on retreats. I'm not talking about a weekend vacation, which that's fine. Those are fun. I'm talking about a retreat where there is a promise. There's a promise that's going to be answered at the end of that retreat. A problem solved, a transformation is going to happen. Those are priceless. And they're worth a lot. They're worth your energy. They're worth your time. They're worth your experience.

Shannon  00:18:28  They're worth so many things. And people get it so confused and they think, well, it's just, you know, I only, you know, I'm at the retreat from these days to these days. And I get to travel. No no no no. It's so much more than even the time on the retreat. It's everything you've experienced in your life. All the education, all the experience that brought you to this point to host the retreat that also has value. And so, yeah, I get really worked up when people are like, well, I just hope it pays for my vacation or my trip. And I'm like, what the. We are not on the same page.

Leni 00:18:58  We're not. But like, there's a couple of things that I want to bring here into the conversation that you mentioned. First of all, I truly believe that you're not meant to be a cup of tea. You're meant to be a glass of champagne.

Shannon 00:19:10  That means you're not on.

Shannon  00:19:12  Hold on. You're speaking my language.

Shannon  00:19:14  I don't know if it'll show up because I have it all blocked out.

Shannon 00:19:17  But anyway, it's a it's a Veuve Clicquot.

Shannon  00:19:21  Bottle that's been custom painted for me that sits on my desk because that's been my favorite champagne for over ten years. And I might have butchered the name a little bit just now, but, that is like. I am a fine glass of champagne. So yes. Please continue.

Leni 00:19:37  I also have a big like, you know, the big, big bottles of champagne in my drawer. And it has a glass cover because it's it's specifically for once I reach a specific goal. So it's there.

Shannon 00:19:50  Waiting. Get it girl.

Leni 00:19:52  Yeah. So when we're not, when we're not trying to be liked by everyone because honestly, it's impossible. It's easier for us to understand. Where do we come from? Who do we serve? And this leads me to the space of, like, once where, like, there's a lot of, like, retreats that are a little bit on the generic side, let's call it like that.

Leni 00:20:13  And you're, I call it like swimming with sardines. You're a sardine and you're with a bunch of other sardines. So there's nothing that makes you stand out and make you different. And people want things that are different in their lives. And then because of that you can have retreats are very very specialized. So an example that is also very connected to what you mentioned about the value of attending a retreat. Right. Because the value and for me retreats are priceless. Because in one moment your life can change.

Shannon 00:20:46  Yeah.

Leni 00:20:47  It's really containers for deep, fast transformation.

Shannon 00:20:50  Yeah.

Leni 00:20:51  To use this example that I love using is if someone needs to get divorced in California, in average, you will spend $250,000 plus all the energy, the relationship, maybe the therapists. If you have kids, you know all this pieces. But if you actually went to a retreat that could save your marriage or make you have an amicable divorce so you don't spend $250,000, what is it worth to you? The the mindset of your kids, the having to go back out on dating, having to date again.

Leni 00:21:31  Right. What is it worth it. And I attended a couples retreat by myself. One was funny, and the reality is that it was a therapist, and it was all about relationships and couples. And they asked one of the attendees, right. The guy, why are you here? And he said, because this is cheaper than divorce. That's literally what he said. Guess what? They're still married. They had another kid and now they have, like, four kids. They're still married. This one retreat was worth saving and marriage. And we undervalue ourselves because we think that if we price ourselves slow, then people, more people will say yes. And the reality is that it costs you the same amount of money, effort and time to get one person to pay you $1,000, then $10,000. Now, I'm not saying just go and raise up your prices without any foundations, but really look inwards And it's not about your self-worth because your self-worth changes every day. One day I wake up and I feel amazing and I'm worth $3 million, and the next day I might not be in the same space.

Leni 00:22:39  So it's not about self-worth. It's about the worth of the work that you do. What are you an expert on? What can you do to help other people change their lives? Right. One big problem. One big solution. That's it. And then really running your business like a business and then maintaining and nurturing those relationships. And this brings us back to loyalty marketing. Because if someone comes to your retreat and then they don't get divorced, but then there is no connection, there is no follow up, there is no integration afterwards. Then all the effort, all the money that was paid for that retreat might be lost. So creating these spaces for connection. Like I can tell you, because I nurture my relationships with my clients. We know in the retreat space, not everyone is ready to host retreats at that moment in their journey. They might need certain things, you know, certain boxes to tick. They might need more confidence. They might need more expertise. But there is this dream, right? The dream of hosting a retreat.

Leni 00:23:48  But because I nurture my relationships and I bring loyalty marketing into every single thing that I do. Because for me, it's part of who I am. It's not. It's not even a separate concept. It's me. Right? I bring that into everything that I do. I get people who show up back in my space three years later and they're like, Now I'm ready to hire you. Now I'm ready to come to your retreat. Those clients would have been lost if I was just like, well, they don't want to buy.

Shannon 00:24:18  Yeah.

Shannon  00:24:20  Yeah. No, this is so good. This is really hitting on a lot of different things, but especially this loyalty piece of of really continuing that nurturing relationships. Listen, retreat leaders really nurturing that relationship that somebody has already attended one of your retreats especially. But like Lenny said, at any touch point, but these ones that have already attended your retreat, there's a thing called cost of acquisition. The cost of acquisition for this person now to attend with you or to rebook with you, is so low compared to getting someone to come on a retreat that hasn't been on a retreat.

Shannon  00:24:57  Not only that, but that person who's attended your retreat now is a form of marketing for your retreats, right? They're the ones that's going to share your retreats. They can, do a testimonial video. There's like, so many different ways they can leave a Google review or a Yelp review or Facebook review or whatever it is that you use, or all of them. but they are another tool in your marketing for you that you don't even have to pay for. It was already paid, right? It's already paid for. But the cost of acquisition for working with someone you've already worked with is minimal compared to attracting new business to come in, so it's kind of twofold. Lenny, what we're talking about here is, is nurturing that relationship. As soon as they start with you, whatever it is, it's a like it's a comment. It's a response, it's a DM. It's, you know, whatever a phone call, an email, whatever that is nurturing from that point on, unless they drop off, which is totally fine.

Shannon  00:25:53  And then also continuing that relationship, even after you've done business with with them in a very special and intentional way with those that have already done business with you. So I'm loving this so much and you can get so creative in so many ways.

Leni 00:26:09  Yes, like once we wrote 200 personalized cards for people who show up for our events. Guess what? I got emails saying thank you so much for this experience. Can I come next year?

Shannon  00:26:20  Okay, I have to tell a story. This is so funny. so my team and I, spent several weeks mailing out a tiny, tiny little cute card that inside the card had a, an intentional card with it and a little note. And I mailed it out to every one of my alumni. Okay. For the past 15 years, it took us weeks. I highly suggest before you do some shit like that, that you know what the dimensions are of your country, of what you're sending. Because I've lived in the US my whole life, and I didn't know that.

Shannon  00:26:56  It has to be a certain size. It cannot be too small like it has to be a certain size. And so I got hundreds of them returned. And I just laugh about it now because it was like Shannon and I did this whole video that I shared with my alumni. Like, if you didn't get this little card, it probably was returned to me. And it will be in your mailbox soon. But it was just so funny because it was like, I loved it. And the people that received it loved it. And yet, you know, I had to laugh at the fact that I didn't research it well enough. But the point being is you've got to nurture your people, like especially the ones that have shown up. You know, you really you really do. I have special events for mine. They get a special discount code. I don't do discounts. I'm not a discount person at all. But I do allow my alumni to have a special code just for them. For any of my future retreats.

Shannon  00:27:45  I do just I give them special gifts. It's just. It's just a thing. I kind of love how you talked about like the Starbucks thing, although we are all so much better than Starbucks. But, you know, it's that whole it's like a reward system, you know, you trust me with your time, which to me is even more valuable than money. But you trust me with your time. And each time you do that with me, I want to really help you, really help you see and feel how much that means to me and to reward you for that. And so I just love this whole concept of loyalty marketing, and I hope to hear from the audience on some ideas of what they do for loyalty marketing, whether it's for someone they haven't worked with or someone they have worked with because they're kind of two different tracks, but on similar, train tracks. and so I would love to hear about that. So, Lenny, I love this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing.

Leni 00:28:38  Oh, no, it's my pleasure. I really, truly believe that once we really create connections with people, nothing can stop us. And I love your story about, you know, sometimes like the little details. But imagine, like the people I receive, like Christmas cards from friends in the US every year. And then when I get them, I can't wait to see them. They have a little bit of like a letter that says what's been going on in the year for them. And every single year I'm just waiting for that card to show up in my mail because it creates this connection. It's about it's about caring for people. Yeah. And there's so many different ways and how what you how you can do it. And the last thing I would like to add here is like, I love that you brought cost of acquisition into the conversation because majority of the people in the coaching transformational space do not know their cost of acquiring a client. They think that having ads and what they cost to get their person to sign up from ads is the cost of acquisition.

Leni 00:29:40  And there's so many different layers, and we're going to like, keep that maybe for a different, separate conversation. But it's very important for people to understand that retention rates when it comes to retreats inside of the retreat, and that does not mean you tell them about your next retreat or your offer one minute before the retreat is over, you need to plan for it, right? There is a marketing and the psychology on the sales process while you do it, but the retention rate of people attending a retreat is between 50 to 70%. That is massive. They're already there. They're your captive audience. They just changed their lives. And you help them?

Shannon  00:30:22  Yep. Oh my gosh, I love this. I love it so much. Well, Lenny also has a free gift for you. She's got an e-book that is called Loyalty on Repeat How to Sell Your Retreats with Past Clients. So that link will be in the show notes. Please grab that e-book and also jump on her podcast, which will also be linked in the show notes.

Shannon  00:30:40  So. Lenny, thank you so much. We will definitely have to do a part two and dive more into business analytics. Some people might like their eyes might cross and they might break out in a sweat. But the truth is, is part of owning a business and running it as a business. And we are not here to play small. We are here to play big. So thanks again, Lenny. I so appreciate you.

Leni 00:31:00  Thank you for having me.

Shannon  00:31:03  Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. Com. See you next time.

Hey retreat boss—it’s time for a heart-to-heart. In this solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about a truth that most retreat leaders avoid:

👉 If your retreat planning isn’t working, it’s not just your strategy—it’s your identity.

Whether you’re dreaming of your first retreat or you’ve been in the game for years, this episode is your wake-up call to stop hustling like someone who hopes to succeed—and start embodying the retreat leader who already is.

✨ Shannon breaks down how to align your actions, energy, and environment with the version of you who fills retreats with ease, earns consistently, and leads with confidence.

You’ll walk away with questions to ask yourself, identity upgrades to make today, and a clear reminder: 💥 You don’t get what you want—you get who you are.

🎧 Tune in now for the kick-in-the-leggings clarity every retreat leader needs.

Link to full blog here: https://theretreatleadersplaybook.com/be-her-now-the-mindset-shift-that-builds-profitable-retreats/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

---------------------------

Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Shannon 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon. Today I want to talk about something that has been coming up in a lot of conversations lately. And it's all about who do you need to become when your retreat planning isn't working? Because here's the thing you all have the vision. You have the passion. Maybe you've hosted a retreat or two, or you're dreaming of it. You're following strategies. Maybe you've even bought some programs and posted pretty graphics and the results are meh, right? You're not filling spots like you thought. You're not hitting those income goals. You do have income goals, right? Don't make me come after you.

Shannon 00:01:04  You better have income goals. But you're burning time and energy and maybe money, and you're just not seeing the return. And here's the truth. I want to share with you with lots of love and zero bullshit. If what you're doing right now isn't working, it's not about doing more. It's about becoming more. Your retreat planning isn't what's broken, but your identity might be, I know. Oh, that sounds a little bit harsh, but stick with me here, because this isn't about blame. It's about radical responsibility. Let's say your goal is to earn $250,000 a year hosting retreats. Amazing. Totally doable. I'm actually going to pause there right now, because if I said that number and you were like, oh no, that's not that's not even possible, then honest to goodness, you're listening to the wrong podcast or you're just not ready. You're thinking way too small. And this isn't this isn't the space for you. Not yet. When you realize that 250,000 is totally doable and so is 500,000.

Shannon 00:02:07  So is $1 million when you realize that you're in the right space. But whatever that number is, whatever that number is. I want you to get honest. When you think of the number, whatever your number is. I want you to get honest. I want you to ask yourself, are you making decisions like someone earning that amount a year? The big amount. The goal amount. Not that small shit. The big number. Are you making decisions like someone earning that number? Are you showing up with the confidence, the clarity and the consistency of someone who believes in that number? Are your daily habits, your energy, your schedule? Your identity aligned with that version of yourself? Who gets that number? Because here's the thing you don't get what you want. You get who you are. I want to say that again. You don't get what you want. You get who you are, who you're matched for. You get what you're matched for. That's why we've ever thought about things. And you're like, why didn't I get this then? But then you realized you went through all this other stuff, and you got that thing later and you were ready for it then.

Shannon 00:03:21  You were you were equipped for it. Then you were thinking in that mindset. You were acting in that like you were ready for it then. We need to be ready for it now. We need to step into the version of ourselves who does hit that goal, that big goal. And let's break this down. So we'll break it down a little bit. If you're stuck in hustle mode, maybe even frozen mode, but let's say you're stuck in hustle mode and you're spinning your wheels trying to plan the perfect retreat to post the perfect reel, or even copying someone else's strategy. Maybe you're missing the point. You're missing the point if you're doing all these things because it's not just about retreat planning and marketing strategies. Although yes, you do need those, but it is about aligning your identity with the results that you say you want. So let's go through this. Let's ask yourself some questions. I really want you to to pause. Maybe after I ask the question, you pause this podcast and answer it.

Shannon 00:04:21  Here's the first question. What does the retreat leader who earns 250,000 a year, $500,000 a year, whatever that number is? What does that retreat leader who earns that money do every day? Answer that question. Maybe she blocks her calendar with non-negotiable CEO time. She prioritizes revenue generating activities like outreach and strategic partnerships over tweaking Canva graphics for hours. Maybe she's very organized. She knows her numbers every day. She knows her numbers. I have a good friend, Erin Haig, who calls it coffee and QuickBooks. Shout out Aaron! I just love that she was doing that while we were in France. Every day it's coffee and QuickBooks. But a retreat leader who earns big money every day. She knows her numbers. Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat.

Shannon 00:05:37  It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind training and come join me across the pond. Here's another question what kind of mindset work does she do? What kind of mindset work does she do? Answer that question every day. Maybe she journals. She visualizes. Maybe she reminds herself every day that her work changes lives. She charges what she's worth and doesn't apologize for it. What kind of mindset work does she do? Another question who does she surround herself with? Who do you surround yourself with? Maybe she's in rooms in person and virtual with others who are playing big, y'all. This is important. This is why I joined the Genius Network. This is why I choose to surround myself with other people who think and play big. Maybe she learns from mentors who's who have actually walked the walk, not just talked the talk.

Shannon 00:06:48  And I've got a little something to say about that here, because in this retreat industry now, we are seeing a lot of mentors and leaders popping up. And for only $7, you can learn how to make $1 million a year or $7,000. It really doesn't even matter. At the bottom, at the end of the day. What really matters is have they walked the walk? Have they walked the walk? That's who you want to listen to. That's who you want to surround yourself with. That's the room that you want to be in. She's also listening to books, podcasts and shows that speak growth, not scarcity. In this section of who she wants to surround herself with this question, I really want you to think hard of who you spend time with. Are they cheering you on and catapulting you to these big dreams? Or are they like, oh really? Are they holding you back? Or are they talking shit about the economy and the who? Whatever. Like, are they bringing you down? And you know how I feel about the economy and the world and how that affects us.

Shannon 00:07:49  It doesn't. Listen to my other podcast on that. But who she surrounds herself with matters. Another question. How does she present herself? How does she present herself? This is kind of twofold to me. One is not in a fake way, right? She shows up on zoom events, even social media. Confident, grounded and magnetic. Right? But also, how do you put yourself together? Does that matter to you? Like, for me, I feel my most abundant, my most passionate, my most. Like I'm getting it when I have put a little something in to the effort of how I feel and look. By my presentation. Exterior presentation just as much as my interior. It does matter to me. It doesn't to everybody, but it matters to me. How you show up energetically and physically determines how you're going to feel. So how does she present herself? She drag in herself in her pajamas and come on over and and going, let me journal this bullshit. That's that's up on both both energetics and physically.

Shannon 00:08:56  Right. How does she present herself? This kind of goes into the very last question I want you to ask yourself, which is how does she take care of her body and her energy. How do you take care of your body and your energy? Nourishing yourself. Moving your body. Getting support when you need it. She doesn't burn herself out trying to prove her worth. Because here's the thing. There is a difference between wishing and becoming. You can wish for success, or you can become the person who creates it. And becoming doesn't mean pretending. It doesn't mean pretending. There's a difference between pretending and acting as if you have something right. But it does mean choosing every single day to act. Think, plan, and move from the version of you who already has the thing you want. So you may think that's pretending, but that's not. And this, this doesn't work the other way around. You don't get the thing and then act as if you are that person. You act as if you are that person.

Shannon 00:09:56  You move. You think, you become that person, and you'll get the thing you want your retreat, planning to actually work? Then work like the leader who already fills her retreats. What does that look like? Sell like the woman who knows her offer. Changes lives. Lead like the business owner who isn't afraid to go all in. And this isn't about meditating more. Although, look, I'm all for journaling, manifesting, meditating, vision, boarding, all those good things. I even have a course on it outlining exactly what I do. And I do think that it makes a powerful difference. But don't get it twisted. Energetics without action is daydreaming. Energetics without action is daydreaming. What bridges the gap between your current reality and your dream retreat? Business is becoming the kind of person who is willing to do the uncomfortable, aligned, focused work to bring it to life. Because here's what I want you to know. To sum this all up, I want you to know this. You don't need to find her.

Shannon 00:10:58  You don't need to earn her. The version of you who fills retreats with ease, earns consistently, and leads with impact. She's already in you. I'm telling you, she is already in you. You just need to start acting like her today. Today? You can do that today. What's. What's one thing you could change today to start acting like that? To start acting like the person who earns that big goal. And if you don't know where to start, y'all know that I have my retreat leader membership. You can join where we talk strategy and mindset, marketing and identity support, stretch goals, all of those things. Or find a mentor or a course or a program or a room that plays big because you were never meant to do this alone, and you're definitely not meant to keep playing small. Let's build your retreat business and the identity to match. I look forward to hearing about it. Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat Ranch. See you next time.

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by Alessia Tenebruso—founder of One Girl Travel, retreat content creator, and social media strategist—for a juicy convo on how to create social media that actually converts.

Alessia shares the importance of having a dedicated content creator or social correspondent at your retreats to capture authentic, behind-the-scenes moments that build trust and spark FOMO (the good kind). They dive into how retreat leaders can stay visible and aligned online without burning out, plus tips on using platforms like Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok strategically.

Whether you're documenting a retreat or planning your next one, this episode is your blueprint for scroll-stopping, story-driven content that fills spots and builds your brand.

🎧 Tune in now and learn how to transform your retreat visibility—one post at a time.

🔗 Links Mentioned:

• Alessia’s Website: https://www.onegirltravel.com
• Follow Alessia on IG: @one_girl_travel

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

-----------------

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys! Welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast at Shannon and I am over the moon excited about my guest today. She is another amazing human being that I met in France. This is not the same because we are not sipping on champagne in France, but I am getting to record with her and I am so excited. Welcome Alexia to the show! I'm so excited you're here.

Speaker 2 00:00:48  Thank you. It's so good to see you. I definitely miss you and all the fun we had in France.

Speaker 1 00:00:53  Oh my gosh, it was seriously life changing on so many levels, but probably the biggest one was meeting the people that I've met there.

Speaker 1 00:01:00  I have recorded shows about it and I have made posts about it. But if you are not up leveling yourself by getting into rooms with people who think higher, you know are just dreaming and envisioning and working towards bigger things. You're in the wrong spaces. And so that was just such an incredible experience. Plus, we're in France drinking champagne. I mean, come on.

Speaker 2 00:01:20  Exactly.

Speaker 1 00:01:21  It was a combination of amazingness. So why don't you first start off by just telling us who you are and what brought you to where you are at today?

Speaker 2 00:01:28  Sure. My name is Alessia Russo. I'm the owner of One Girl Travel. I am many things I like to consider myself, like the Martha Stewart of the internet. I'm a certified life coach. I am newly a certified travel advisor. I am a content creator. I am a brand visibility consulting coach, and I am also a event Social Media coordinator.

Speaker 1 00:01:52  Yes, to all of those things. And I saw quite a few of those things in action when we were in France.

Speaker 1 00:01:58  And I want to talk about that stuff, because when I met you and I was realizing what you were doing and what you do, and I saw your content, which just blew me away, I was like, oh my goodness, this is so important for retreat leaders, because I do think a lot of retreat leaders are willy nilly. They're social media and they're digital content in general. And one of the things I always talk about is my number one goal is to grow my email list, my email list. But the number one way to do that is through social media, y'all. If you only knew how many times we've tried to record and the oopses that I have done today, I'm just going to blame it on a very busy, fruitful, amazing weekend I had with my retreat alumni. I did a lot of yelling and screaming, so my voice is done and so is my brain almost. But what we're going to talk about is super important because number one, building our email list. But we have to do that through our digital presence.

Speaker 1 00:02:48  And the first thing people are going to look at when somebody is considering you or as a host or your business is your social media presence. It's a form of validation and it needs to be curated properly. one of the things I was talking about before we hit record was, you know, I see a lot of retreat leaders, especially new ones, but even some that have been trying to to kick around retreats for a while where they're like posting a cute picture of their kid and then their dog and then the retreat. And then, you know, this I don't know thing they saw on the news and then the retreat, like it's just all over the place and it's inconsistent. So could we just first talk about the importance of social media, the consistency of it, just, you know, in general why it's important to retreat leaders?

Speaker 2 00:03:31  Yeah, absolutely. And first, I totally agree with you about your mailing list because you don't own your followers on these social platforms. But like you said, like this is like where your credibility is.

Speaker 2 00:03:40  This is where they're getting to know you. So you're building community with your social media platforms, all of them. And each platform is very different. I in my opinion, I don't know if you agree with me on this, but I feel like Instagram is more of the curated, you know you got your whole like, page and it's all curated. Nice TikToks a little more rogue. I feel like I can have a little more fun, a little more behind the scenes on TikTok. Facebook is Facebook's Facebook. for Facebook, right? Like it's been around for a long time. But pretty much everything I post on Instagram just goes to Facebook. But basically, that's where people are going on your page to get to know you. And I know you mentioned about like posting family and kids and dogs and things that that's great for your personal page that doesn't belong on your business page unless it is carrying over to what you are trying to get across to your community.

Speaker 1 00:04:33  Right?

Speaker 2 00:04:33  But that's what stories are for, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 00:04:35  Stories, I think, are a great way to share behind the scenes of your life. People love stories. They love seeing what you do on the weekends with your family, your friends, but your actual social media feed. It should be intentional and you should be posting with purpose each time you post.

Speaker 1 00:04:52  Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats, so if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too. I love that you're saying it like this because you literally nailed what I see as a user, let alone, you know, a business that's that's using the platforms. I agree with TikTok, by the way. We only started our TikTok account so we could do like pranks on the ranch and like show some funny behind the scenes goofiness.

Speaker 1 00:05:34  And we've done some of that and I got to get better at it. But that is why I started TikTok. I thought that could be the more sassier branch of us. And then Instagram is very curated and Facebook is more like, here's an event, here's just some information, here's where we post our articles. It's SEO driven. It's, you know, it's got good stuff. Don't get me wrong. Depending on the age that you're targeting also might depend on which social media platform that you're spending a lot of time in. Very true, but I do agree. Each of them have their own kind of feel and layout to it. And I love that you said personal stuff. Personal page, unless it's stories. I totally agree with that so much. The stories is where people really, really get to know, like the person behind the brand, I think, or people behind the brand, like what's really happening, you know, behind the scenes. What are your struggles? What are your your successes? what are your your learning points or failures however you want to call them? And so I'm really excited that you you mentioned it that way.

Speaker 1 00:06:28  Are you laid it out that way?

Speaker 2 00:06:30  Yeah. I think it's a great opportunity for people to like, know and trust you. Right. Like that's the purpose of building your community. And they have to see that you're a real person, you know, especially if you're asking them to pay you for something. They need to know who they're paying and if they want to invest in you as a business owner.

Speaker 1 00:06:49  See, this is so funny about, I don't know. It was probably eight, eight or so years ago. I was hosting a retreat in Northern California, and those of you that were on this retreat, you'll remember this. And we're going around the table, you know, the opening night and just introducing ourselves. What do we do? And all that kind of fun stuff. And I don't know, about halfway through. So we probably have about seven women who've already gone, well, like, this next woman was like, my name is so-and-so, I work for the FBI, and I background checked you to make sure that this was a legit thing.

Speaker 1 00:07:17  And I was like, what? I mean, okay. And she was just very honest, like, you know, I just I didn't know if everything on social media was fake. If you know what was real, what wasn't real. And I just decided that I was going to use the tools that I had at my resources to check you out and make sure that I wasn't just giving my money away to some weird situation. Well, this was before, you know, the way social media is today. today, I think it's a little bit it's a little harder to curate a fake relationship on social media. You can. Absolutely. But if you're using the stories and you're using all the tools that are involved, and there's really you showing up the way, you know, you would want to show up to create that relationship. It's a little bit harder. But I just thought that was interesting because that once again, shows like to your point, if they're going to pay you money and they're going to show up to this space with strangers, like they need to feel like they can trust you.

Speaker 2 00:08:07  Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 00:08:08  And so I just I'm so glad that you're pointing that out. Okay. When I met you in France, you were one of the participants, but you were also a social media curator, and you killed it. Because I remember going to bed every night, and I would scan what was going on in the social media world, and it would be like, oh my gosh, look at her post. And she like, did a recap of I think it was the day before. It might have been, I don't remember if it was that day or the day before. I think you were on purpose doing it a day behind. and so it was like, oh my gosh, how you curated it gave me such FOMO. And I was there. Like, I was like, if I wasn't a part of this, I would be like, how can I be a part of that and talk to me about that and why you like. Why is that part of one of the things that you do and how important that is?

Speaker 2 00:08:52  Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:08:52  And exactly what you said it is creating that foam because only a, not everybody can code to a retreat, right? Like you have. Oh 1015, 20 people at a retreat. There are hundreds of people that are watching you, and we're debating on attending the retreat and what I'm doing as a participant of the retreat that is documenting what is happening. I am bringing it to life for everybody that's not there because I am somebody that I. The way I network is by being in the room at events and I love it, I love conferences, I love just being in those rooms because of the energy, because you're with like minded people, like you're just vibing off each other. You're getting excited and like, you know the feeling when we were together, it's not something that can be really shown through photos, right? It's like by me talking to the community and telling them what's happening. And by sharing, like, these behind the scenes clips that nobody else knows about except for us, and I'm sharing it with everybody.

Speaker 2 00:09:58  Like they're getting to see what's really happening at these retreats. They're getting to see the transformation in real time. And I think it's such a great way of marketing your retreats because then they're seeing, okay. Like, look how much fun they had. Look at the transformations they had. Look at all the connections that were made. I want to go on that retreat. And so then they consider joining another retreat.

Speaker 1 00:10:21  So there's to me, there's a couple things that this is like hitting on. First of all, you're there. You're a participant. You're creating, curating content to create this FOMO, to create this future marketing. And what I highly suggest is, is if you decide to do something like this, which we're going to talk about in a moment, that you already have your next date available. So that way when someone's watching this curated content and they're having this immense FOMO, which I'm telling you, y'all, if you if you were to saw the stuff that we did and the magic that we were creating together as a group, you would have absolutely been like, I need to be there.

Speaker 1 00:10:54  And so you need to be able to say, yes, here's our next one. Here's our next one. Right. So so just being prepared for that at least a wait list. Like here's the landing page for the wait list at minimum. Right. But this was so powerful. So that being said, we've talked about how important social media is. The content on social media is the platforms on social media is talk to me about if somebody wanted to do or hire someone like you or hire you like, talk to me about the things that you provide that helps them build their marketing and build their business as a content creator or brand builder.

Speaker 2 00:11:25  Absolutely. So consistency is key when it comes to social media. You want to make sure, like if you have a retreat that you're posting consistently about, that retreat and what I help retreat host do is I post on their behalf, getting the excitement going for the retreat or whatever it is they're selling, like talking about it and just showing my experience through what they are offering.

Speaker 2 00:11:50  so really just build up your social media share, like where are we going to be? What are some of the things we're going to do? Tease them a little bit to get them excited and to follow along on that journey up until the actual retreat date. And then at the retreat, like that's where the magic is happening, you know, in real time. And the thing is, if you're a retreat host, it's hard to be in the moment and also try to capture your own content. And that's why, like.

Speaker 1 00:12:17  Really near impossible.

Speaker 2 00:12:19  Right?

Speaker 1 00:12:19  Like it is.

Speaker 2 00:12:21  I can't imagine it like it's very difficult. And I know, you know, you can hire professional photographers, but they're not getting that behind the scenes detail and like really the energy that's happening. So that's why I think it's great to have a content creator with you that can document everything. Because what they're doing, what I do is I am capturing thousands of videos and photos, and I am using them for future content for the retreat host.

Speaker 2 00:12:51  So after the retreat is over, all that content is getting repurposed and it's being used to sell the next one. It's being used to market whatever else is coming next, and you can just keep repurposing it over and over and you're getting a library full of content.

Speaker 1 00:13:07  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to retreat mastermind training and come join me across the pond. So what I'm hearing is having a content creator who helps you market ahead of time, market during as well as capturing, and then even help you create content after for future retreats.

Speaker 1 00:14:00  So it really just sounds like that we just need a content creator all the time. If I'm being honest.

Speaker 2 00:14:07  I mean the afterwards, like then you can you can use their videos because you'll have access to their library and then you can repurpose it as you want. If you don't want to keep them on to continuously make the content. But it's really, I think, having that creator on retreat with you, where you don't have to worry, you don't have to be on your phone, you don't have to do anything except be with your people. I think that is the biggest thing.

Speaker 1 00:14:32  I agree with you so much. one of the things that we do at our retreats is I have my retreat coordinator who helps me do that is I have a person that that's that's what they're doing. but she's not a content creator. She's she's young and she's, you know, got a little bit of that brain, but she's not a content creator. And so the difference to what she does, which is amazing to what you do, which is mind blowing.

Speaker 1 00:14:55  I think it's important to really look at, like, who's the person that you're going to invite into this role that's going to do this? because your content, you guys have to go back and find it, and I'll see if I can try to link some of the things. I know that some of them were stories there, but a lot of them were post anyway, my point is, is like from you throwing back the covers and grabbing a cup of coffee and walking the ground. You know what I mean? Like these things, those those details that create that feeling and that emotion of being there with the group, really getting a feel for like what the lodging really looks like and what the food experience really is and what the magic of the moment is, like all those little pieces that we try to explain in pictures or just descriptive words just don't care. They just don't even. Honestly, to me. Come close to the way you did in your content creation.

Speaker 2 00:15:47  Exactly. And I'm showing it from the point of view as an attendee, you know, so if somebody is worried about attending a retreat by themselves.

Speaker 2 00:15:56  And my focus with one girl travel originally was solo travel empowering women to travel the world by themselves, I've now expanded to empowering women to do anything that they want in life confidently. but it really helps ease their mind to like, okay, this is what it's going to look like on this retreat. Like, if she can do it, I can do it. And it's kind of just like giving them like those training wheels, like, okay, I can do this. I see somebody else do it. This is what I can expect to do.

Speaker 1 00:16:24  Ooh, that's such a good point. That really is such a good point, because there are a lot of first time retreat goers, and especially on the the female side of the world that are afraid. They're afraid to make that, that that commitment and show up to something that they really don't know if they are going to feel safe in. And I don't just mean physically, I mean all of it just feel safe and feel, you know, like this is a place that they're going to be accepted, that they're going to, you know, feel comfortable or they're going to love or they're going to like or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 00:16:51  They're just afraid to do it. And so when they can really see and actually feel through this content, it's really empowering.

Speaker 2 00:16:58  Absolutely. And I feel like when it's relatable, it's just it's so much more powerful because if we're just seeing, you know, models posing, like pretending to do things like that doesn't feel real. Like I want to see a real person go to this thing and see their, their actual, you know, how they feel when they're doing it, their actual experience. And that's what I'm sharing.

Speaker 1 00:17:24  Yes. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, if somebody wanted to work with you, how would they get Ahold of you and where can they find your information.

Speaker 2 00:17:32  Yeah. So you can email me at contact at. You can also go to my website. Com and I have all the ways you can work with me there. I'm on social media. it's at the word one. Underscore girl. Underscore travel. I'm all over the internet. You will find me if you type in one girl travel or Elisa.

Speaker 2 00:17:53  I'll be there.

Speaker 1 00:17:55  Yay! And I'll have all of that linked in the show notes. If you are driving or unable to, look it up right now. I'll have everything in this in the show notes. Well, I'm going to have to have you out to the ranch, so don't go anywhere because we are going to chat about that. And have you come experience a ranch retreat. But thank you so much for being on the show.

Speaker 2 00:18:12  Yes. Thank you. This was my pleasure. I love talking about this.

Speaker 1 00:18:16  Me too. Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. Com. See you next time.

In this heartfelt and empowering episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, host Shannon Jamail sits down with Kelley Hartman to explore the transformative power of joy in retreat leadership. Kelley shares how a life-changing diversity retreat in her twenties sparked her passion for holding space and eventually led her to create her own retreats focused on joy, self-care, and aligned leadership.

Together, Shannon and Kelley dive deep into why joy is not just a nice-to-have, but a non-negotiable for any retreat leader who wants to avoid burnout and truly support others. They get candid about energy management, setting boundaries, and honoring your nervous system—especially when life throws challenges your way.

Whether you're a seasoned retreat host or dreaming of starting your first one, this episode reminds you that when you prioritize your own joy and well-being, you elevate the experience for everyone you serve.

Offerings from Kelley: Free 4 Step Outline to reset into joy: https://kelley-hartman.mykajabi.com/wildhartscollectivejoyresetsignup 

Connect with Kelley: https://wildhartscollective.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

---------------------------------------------------

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat. Success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leader's podcast. It's Shannon and today I have such a special guest, although I have to preface it by saying this is not as fun as France because my guest is someone that I met while I was in France, and we were just saying right before we recorded that it was such a magical group and I missed that energy so, so very much. But I'm really excited to see you today. Kelly, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 00:00:54  Thank you. Very excited to be here.

Speaker 1 00:00:58  Yes. So Kelly Hartmann and I are going to talk about something that probably seems a little bit like.

Speaker 1 00:01:04  Wait a minute, Shannon, why are you talking about this? But I actually feel like it's super, super important for us as retreat leaders and what we do and how we serve. And it's just a very, very important aspect of our leadership. But before we dig into the topic, Kelly, just tell us about who you are and what brought you to where you are today.

Speaker 2 00:01:22  Great. Yeah. So I'm Kelly Hartman and I own Wild Hearts Collective, and I am a retreat leader. So the journey there is a little bit of a long one. I went to my first retreat in my 20s, and what really sparked my lifelong desire to host retreats was the amount of transformation that happens when you're on retreat. I met people there that I still connect with today, and that's 25 years later. and basically just learning the personal lived journeys needs of everyone there is what was life changing for me. It was a diversity retreat and it was getting that individual perspective. So when I hit 45, I said, I'm going to do what I wanted to do my whole life.

Speaker 2 00:02:11  I'm going to host retreats. And I was also in corporate. I already host leadership trainings. I created Elevate Her, I host the global mentorship program and did a lot of trainings and learning and development for corporate women. So I'm taking that out of practice and doing it and hosting retreats of my dreams. So that is why I started.

Speaker 1 00:02:36  Yay! You know what I love about this is that over 20 years ago, you had the spark and you're bringing it to fruition. And I think sometimes people, whether you're 40, 50, 60, 70, it doesn't even matter whatever your age is. But women, especially whatever that number is, that age in our head and we're like, yeah, I'm too old to do this now, you know? And I just, I call bullshit on that because there isn't an age that's too old. There just isn't. Okay. There isn't. And so, Kelly, I'm so, so glad that you were following your dreams now. And you're hosting these retreats because.

Speaker 1 00:03:16  Yeah, I met Kelly in France, as I mentioned, and her energy is yummy. Like, I just cannot even put it into proper words. And so spending time with her on retreat, I'm sure, would be a joy, which is exactly what we're going to talk about today, because Kelly and I in France, we were talking about some of the things that might be missing from a retreat leader's life, as far as you know, being the best version of them. And one of those things is focusing on joy. So, Kelly, can you just kind of talk to us a little bit more about this?

Speaker 2 00:03:50  Oh for sure. So as a retreat leader, you are facilitating the transformation of others on your retreat. And when you're doing that, that is having a requirement for you to hold space. And a lot of times, especially right now. Everything is so the world is messy and it's heavy. And every five seconds there's breaking news about something. And what that does is that triggers our nervous system to go into fight or flight.

Speaker 2 00:04:22  And it makes all of this anxiety and worry and fear come into our energetic field and build up in us. And when we have all this heaviness and fear and anxiety and we dysregulated our nervous system, that is what causes us to basically not be able to hold that space. As retreat leaders, we need to know how to step out of the grind, to step out of burnout to start with self-care so that we when we show up on retreat, we are the best version of ourselves. And that's when we talk about anchoring into joy. Because what is joy and what is required for you to actually experience joy? You have to feel safe, right? You have to feel your nervous system has to feel good for you to even get to experience joy. And once you get there, that is when expansiveness comes. That is when you're in flow. That is when you can give and pour into other people's cups.

Speaker 1 00:05:37  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss.

Speaker 1 00:05:42  I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind and come join me across the pond. Okay, I love this on so many levels. You are right, the world is messy. That's a really good way of putting it. I think the world's always messy, but it just feels extra loud. You know, at the moment. we've definitely in our lifetime, Kelly, we have seen some extra loud moments. probably. Maybe. You know, I'm sure more than previous decades. Only in the sense even that it's just so damn accessible. Too accessible in some ways.

Speaker 1 00:06:43  Yeah. But yes, that and also I want to piggyback on this because as Kelly knows, this last month has been really very difficult for me. I've had some losses and and when we're in those spaces, whether it's heaviness from the world and our nervous system is disruptive or very personalized heaviness and we're disrupted. I think it's important that we remember that's not the time to create when we're in that space, when we're in that space of full disruption, full nervous system panic, whatever you want to call it. That's not the time to reach out. That's as far as reaching out to your, marketing efforts or your creation efforts or whatever may be the case. Maybe that's when you rely on a team member and you're like, hey, I need you to step up for me, or you hire it out for that moment, or you just take a break. But it's like, we need to honor that. There are times in life we're going to push, right? We're going to push through things.

Speaker 1 00:07:38  You know, you stub your toe, push through it, whatever. But there are also times when your nervous system is telling you, okay, we we can't we can't go on. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 00:07:48  Yes. And it's so important that we learn to honor that in ourselves, because we have to learn how that we can honor that in our participants and see that and help them through that. In a lot of times, especially in the world right now, it's the hustle bustle. We got to go. We're we're women entrepreneurs, right? So we have a lot of big goals, a lot of big dreams. And I know that we hustle a lot. We're always kind of like, I gotta get this done and do that. And we don't take or make the space always to breathe, to anchor in, to return to our body out of our mind. And that causes those cortisol levels to rise, the anxiety, the panic. And it takes a toll on your physical and mental health and is so important for us to listen to our body, to rest like you said, to take a break and rest and recalibrate Because we're able to come back stronger than before.

Speaker 2 00:08:48  It's so important.

Speaker 1 00:08:51  Yeah. This is such a good reminder to me sometimes I forget. And I think many of our listeners forget that it doesn't always have to be pushed through it. It reminds me when I used to have my private practice for mental health. If I sat with a particularly heavy session with a client, I had to work really hard to reset myself so I didn't take it into the next session. It wouldn't be fair to that next patient for me to bring the previous patient's heaviness to them, right? And it's the same aspect here, Kelly, especially for those of us who are holding space. I'm just going to say it. You really should not be bringing your heaviness into the space that other people are trying to share their heaviness. It's just not appropriate. I know people are listening, are going to disagree with me. They're going to think, well, that's a safe space for everybody to do it. You know what? Yes, but not for the leader. The leader has to do their own processing, their own leaning in, their own resetting.

Speaker 1 00:09:44  Separate. It really is. That is not the time and space for you to bring your heaviness in. It really alludes the whole point of a retreat for the guests that are paying to participate with you as a leader. It's okay to say, hey, I'm experiencing heaviness today. We're going to start our workshop a little bit later and then you do your thing. I'm not saying that you're going to show up and pretend like everything's okay. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, you're not bringing your shit into the same space that everybody else is trying to hold their heaviness or share their stuff, and, and I just I'm super passionate about that. And this is a really good reminder for myself as well.

Speaker 2 00:10:23  100%. And that's and this is what I definitely want to talk about that this is not toxic positivity. This is not you should be enjoy every single day. And if you're not, enjoy it because that's bullshit. That is total bullshit. What this is, is that this is a reminder that we have tools and that to use those tools to really listen to your body and recalibrate your energy.

Speaker 2 00:10:46  You own your experience on this planet, and when you choose to be a retreat leader, you're choosing to guide others and help them in their experience. And it's absolutely correct. You need to go in able to facilitate transformation. If you're in your own shit, you can't facilitate that transformation. You just you have to deal with that first. And having those tools to reset into joy, into calibrate to that is huge. It allows you to be expansive. It allows you to hold energy and space for others and allow them on their journey for transformation.

Speaker 1 00:11:23  Yes. Thank you for this topic. I think it's so very important, and it's just one of those things that's often overlooked. as I shared, things have been really heavy with me, and one of the decisions that I made this August, I was having my retreat leader mastermind, and I'm actually Rescheduling it because it's just not the right time for me to hold space for others because I'm bringing my shit with me. And so I'm super transparent about that and making sure that, you know, I'm making decisions that are sound for my body and safe for me, but also for my guests.

Speaker 1 00:11:58  I am still having my alumni retreat. for those that don't know what that is, is every other year, sometimes three years, but usually every other year, I host a retreat that's just for alumni. That means they've been on my retreat before. They know exactly who I am and what's going on. And I had a real heart to heart with myself and the group, and they are well aware of what I'm going through. And this is just a party. It's just a gathering. There's no transformation, there's no promise. There's no holding space necessarily. We're just coming together to celebrate. And we're all very excited about it. And I'm actually excited about it. My alumni retreat, because I just I feel safe with them just as much as they feel safe with me. And it's, you know, there's there's just a really good, And, it's just a really good vibe with this group and it's just going to be so fun. But I've really honored. The thing that I've put forth that I'm saying is I'm not creating anything in this time.

Speaker 1 00:12:48  In this time. This time of my own heaviness. It's not fair to the people who might be receiving receiving it, but also they're not going to receive the, the, the my true heart right now. They're going to receive my broken heart or my grief heart or my guilt heart or whatever it is that I'm feeling inside. That's what they're going to receive. And that's not that's not representative who who I am. And so whether it's big like the world or like loss or anything like that, or whether it's just you struggle with sadness sometimes or you struggle with whatever, you know, or you've got, you know, difficulties in an important relationship, whatever that that is, you've got to lean into that and not bring it with you into your transformative spaces. And I think you, you know, you, Kelly especially, you offer tools and thoughts on how you can maybe tune out of that darkness.

Speaker 2 00:13:42  Yes. Yeah, because we do have those. And first I want to say, thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable because you're setting an example and telling people that it's okay to pivot.

Speaker 2 00:13:55  you know, when I work with women, both inside and outside of corporate, there's a lot of fear about, perception or quote unquote feeling, which is such bullshit. Sorry. But in that if we don't do things the way that we thought, if we don't, if we pivot, that's a failure. But you are actually doing something amazing for both you and the attendees and doing it in a space that will be transformative for them and bringing your best self when you can. So that's that's setting a huge example for everyone. And that's just amazing. So thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 1 00:14:34  Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats. So if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too.

Speaker 1 00:14:56  Yeah. No, absolutely I, I really I. My, my motto is to try to walk the talk. And so what I teach I really I really do want to walk and I it was a really hard message to send to the attendees for August. and it was really it's been really hard, even for those that keep inquiring about it. but also feels right. It's hard, you know, the hard that feels right. That's what this is. This is the hard that feels right. And so I want my thing was, especially I had this conversation with an attendee who was really disappointed. But my thing was I want to show up and give my best self. I don't want to bring this and set it on your plate. or or do a half ass, you know, retreat for you. That's just not okay. And so anyway, so yeah, I feel really good about it. As hard as it is, I don't feel good about it. I feel good that the decision was the right decision to make.

Speaker 1 00:15:52  just like I feel good that spending time with my retreat alumni who are coming tomorrow and I can't wait to see them. feels also very good, because I know that that's not going to require me holding space necessarily. My team can do it if that needs to be happening, but most my alumni retreats, I'm just going to be honest. It's just a party. It's a girl party.

Speaker 2 00:16:11  That's awesome. So, so. And that is what we talk about a lot right now. And what I do is I gather the women we're gathering, the women gathering women in circles is so important and amazing. and just that space. But again, it's that that awesome and just radical honesty that you have, that this is what this experience is. It's not a retreat. It's a party. And that is. Yeah, that's exactly what will be expected of attendees. And they're excited to see you. They've already been through that transformation with you. And they they understand. So that is totally amazing.

Speaker 1 00:16:48  Yes.

Speaker 1 00:16:49  Yeah it really is. And plus the outpouring of love from them has been just beautiful. So, well Kelly, tell us, like if somebody wants to spend more time with you because I think that they would benefit from it greatly. Tell me some of the offerings that you currently have.

Speaker 2 00:17:03  Sure. So I am hosting a retreat in September called Joy as Revolution and we are taking, this experience is amazing because it's allowing people to experience joy in different ways. So joy isn't always this exciting, passionate, like, oh, I'm in joy. I take everyone through the four elements. so how do you feel in Earth as you're experiencing joy. And that's a grounded joy of feeling stable or air. How does air feel? That's going to be light and that's doing breathwork and feeling alive. Or if you look at fire, fire is that passion. That's the creativity. So that's doing art, that's dancing, that's, you know, yelling at the moon, that fiery. And then last is water.

Speaker 2 00:17:52  And that's when you're in flow and you let go of the things that we hold so deep. So the transformation that's coming there and what I specialize in, and that's with all of my offerings, is getting you out of your head and into your body. Your body knows. And you talked about that you felt into your decisions about both retreats. Your intuition told you what was right and you listened. And what I see so much in women is we ignore intuition because societal expectations tell us No. You should push through this. You should act a certain way. We have these expectations of how you show up and how you act. So I specialize in getting women to get into their bodies so they can transform and listen and learn and feel. And then they trust their intuition. And that is when the magic happens.

Speaker 1 00:18:50  Oh, yes. Thank you. And may I have another I love this so much. And I will have Kelly's website linked in the show notes. So that way you can go check out her offerings.

Speaker 1 00:19:00  And I think you even have a free gift for our listeners. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the free gift?

Speaker 2 00:19:05  Yeah, it's my four tips to a joy reset. So it's exactly that. It's just an easy little thing that you can do really quickly. It has, some reprogramming and I'm certified. So it just is something that helps you get out of the loops that we have, those thought loops or anxiety or fear and gets you into your body so you can anchor into joy and you can visualize your best self and live as that self. And it's under five minutes. So really easy little quick thing.

Speaker 1 00:19:34  Yay. Well that will also be linked in the show notes. So Kelly, thank you so much for coming on the show and just reminding us of what we need to be really focusing on as effective leaders in our industry, rather than just the metrics or social media or the right offering or the right workshop or all of these things that we think are super important and they are important to a certain degree.

Speaker 1 00:19:58  But really, it all starts with our inner joy. So thank you so much, Kelly, for being on the show.

Speaker 2 00:20:05  Oh, thank you so much, Shannon. I greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 1 00:20:08  Thanks for listening to the Retreat Leaders podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. Com. See you next time.

In this candid episode of the Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail sits down with Pilates studio owner and retreat host Misty Chambers to unpack the highs and lows of her first-ever retreat. From a surprise challenge with a sick guest to navigating meal budgets in the Champagne region of France, Misty shares everything she wishes she had known—and what she’ll absolutely do differently next time.

They talk about the importance of having personal space as a retreat leader, hiring a retreat coordinator, setting realistic expectations around meals, and most importantly: why retreat leaders must sell, not just market, their experiences. This is an honest, refreshing conversation that every retreat leader—especially those in their early retreat-hosting days—will deeply relate to.

Connect with Misty: www.breatheriveroaks.com

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Full Transcript 

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to the Retreat Leaders Podcast. It's Shannon and I'm super excited to have a guest today. That is another Fellow of France Retreat member. I met her in France and fell in love with her and her energy, and I'm super excited to have her on the show because she's going to be super vulnerable with us. Y'all. and share with us something that a lot of retreat leaders hesitate to share about, or they just don't even want to talk about it sometimes, or they make it sound different than it was. And that is learning through our first retreat and how we would want to do it maybe differently.

Speaker 1 00:01:01  And just we're going to go dig right into it. So welcome, Misty to the show. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I'm so excited to see your face again. It's not the same as France, but I am glad to see your face. before we get started into this topic, just tell us a little bit about who you are and, you know, give us a little bit of a taste of what? What makes Misty. Misty. Yeah. So my name is Misty chambers. I live in Houston, Texas and have a brick and mortar Pilates studio there. I have been in the movement industry, most of my life. started off, teaching dance and then got into yoga and pilates and, along the way, I've done interior design and, and now retreats. So, I've kind of had a, a long little detour of things that have gotten to me where I am now. And, So, yeah, it's a little bit about me. I think all of us have that to some degree.

Speaker 1 00:02:07  If I talked about all the different hats that I've worn until I got to the space. And it's funny because all the hats I have worn helped me in the space that I am in today. And I think that just is kind of how it is. So, so Misty, you just recently had your very first retreat, you hosted your very first retreat. You were actually when you left us in France, you were headed to host your retreat. And. Exactly. Yeah. Through that process, we kind of all you were keeping us all in the loop during this retreat on Voxer. And my heart was like, oh, my poor Misty, because I feel like the universe was showing you, like all the things that could possibly make you cranky about hosting a retreat. It was definitely a learning experience. Yes, but part of what we're going to talk about is a lot of times, retreat leaders think that their first retreat is like going to be that that.

Speaker 2 00:03:02  Oh, all.

Speaker 1 00:03:03  You know, like this is it.

Speaker 1 00:03:04  This is exactly how it's going to be. I'm so excited. You know, there might have been 1 or 2 things, but, you know, this is it. And it's like, that's not always the case. As a matter of fact, I would say more often than not, after you host your first retreat, you're like, first of all, do I even want to keep doing this? Second of all, how can I, you know, change all these different things? And so anyway, Misty, let's just start off with maybe your very first thing that you were like, okay, this is what happened and this is what I plan to do differently in the future. Sure. And to feed off of what you said a second ago, I don't know if you got if you remember in the box or chat. after the retreat, I was like, I don't know if I'm cut out for this. I don't know if I want to host another retreat because I had such a challenging time with this one.

Speaker 1 00:03:53  And, I think one of the things that made it so difficult is that one of one of my guest was ill, and she was very challenging to deal with because she did not feel good. She was not, nice to me. She wasn't nice to her tour guide. She we stayed at a hotel. She was not nice to the hotel staff, and it just made the energy very low. And like, we were walking on eggshells. And I one of the the first things in dealing with that, I would say that I have learned is that I don't want to stay at the same place, like I did. we we were staying at the same hotel. I, in fact, was just two doors down from, this woman. And I would want to hole up in my room when we were not doing anything because I didn't want to, you know, I needed some downtime to myself. And so, one lesson learned is that I think I would, stay either at another hotel or make sure that I was in a room in a different part of the hotel.

Speaker 1 00:05:05  If you're or if you're doing a retreat venue staying offsite. just to give yourself a little bit of decompression time. yeah. So I love this. Before we keep digging in, I realized we didn't really share kind of what what your retreats entail. And so you're misty. You focus primarily on travel and culture experiences. And I remember when you and I talked, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is my jam. Like, it's it's not a travel guide. It's like a travel guide on steroids, right? I don't even I don't even like using the word travel guide. It's it's an experience that you're providing, you know, where it's got all elements of the retreat, what would be considered a retreat. It just doesn't have maybe a retreat transformation at the end so much as an immersion in this really cool place space, you know, and so anyway, so it includes, you know, lots of different aspects of it, the excursions and exploring and the meals and conversations. But it's just, you know.

Speaker 1 00:06:08  It's a it's a travel and culture immersion. So I just I wanted to clarify that. So that way people are like, well, what were you doing in a hotel? Because not everybody does retreats in hotels. Some, some people do. and I also love that you said, because this is something that I talk about all the time when it comes to hosting retreats is retreat. Leaders have to have a separate space, at minimum, a completely separate room. Right? Because I've had I've seen retreat leaders where they're sharing rooms in co shared spaces, like with their retreat guests. And I just do not think that's a good idea. So at minimum you have to have a separate room like here on the ranch. It's a whole separate building at the back of the property. It's the retreat leader's apartment. They have their own own little kitchenette, even, like it's just a space where they can kind of, regroup, reset, retreat themselves. So that way they can show up as their best selves.

Speaker 1 00:06:55  So I'm really glad that you said that. And then there are retreat leaders like Aaron, who's who. We met each other through where she even stays off site. So she might be a few houses down from the house or the venue that she's using, or whatever may be the case, so she can completely decompress and she's got someone on point like Matt, which I think Matt was her retreat coordinator, which I think was one of the points that you were going to make to Misty is having a retreat coordinator, right? Yes. Again, because I had a guest that was ill. I was having to, manage her, like finding a doctor. her husband also came. they wanted an extra room so they didn't have to sleep in the same room since she was sick. So just navigating all these, different, things that were unexpected. We also had to pivot the activities that we were doing. Now, I did have a tour guide that I had for three days during the retreat. she was local there, and, she was fantastic and did help with, the pivoting of the activities and stuff.

Speaker 1 00:08:09  But it would have been helpful had I had, you know, some like Daysha Danzy or Matt Quinonez, who I hope I said his name correctly and right. Who, who, does this retreat coordination. That can be your point of contact, who can handle all those things so that you can be fully present for your other guests and not take time away trying to juggle all these, pivots. Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second, because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat. It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets, from pricing to planning, marketing. To mindset. And you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat Mastermind and come join me across the pond.

Speaker 1 00:09:20  You know I'm glad. Yes, this is so important. I had daysha on the show a few episodes ago. If you haven't listened to that episode, you got to dig into it. It's she's an incredible retreat coordinator. It is so critical that you have an on point person who takes all of these things on because Misty, as you've probably know and felt every single time this person would come at you with some of the thing they needed or whatever, it would just totally hit your nervous system and your whole body. And then to continue to try to hold space and and stay light and joyful and excited about the experience is really hard. Where if you have a point person on site who is the one that is the first stop for everything that's needed, every issue that comes up, everything that's needed, that's the first stop. And then if they can't handle something, then yeah, they can come to you and say, hey, Misty, I'm not clear where I should go with this direction. Fine.

Speaker 1 00:10:07  But there should be a first stop person. So thank you for bringing that up because I think that that's so under underutilized underrated not talked about enough. And so yes. Thank you. So. So lesson one was you know staying away from your guests, having your own space to retreat to and, you know, decompress and just reset. And then lesson number two is having a retreat coordinator or assistant on site to help you. What other types of lessons did you learn? So, since we were staying at a hotel and not at a retreat venue, I did not have a chef on site, so we were eating out at all of our meals at different restaurants. We had, two meals that we did at the hotel. Most of the meals that we did were like, the menus were the prefix menus, but on the occasions where they weren't, I found myself going over the allotted budget that I had had per person. while I tried to, we were in the champagne region, so of course there was a lot of champagne, being consumed.

Speaker 1 00:11:17  So I would try to order a bottle to help mitigate, you know, the different, amount of glasses that might be, ordered, but, you know, I couldn't predict what people were going to order for their meals. And while I tried to look at the menus ahead of time and tried to guesstimate a good budget per person, I felt like every time that we went out to eat, I was, blowing my budget a little bit. So I think having, an agreement with the restaurant beforehand, having a preset menu, these are the things that you can choose from, would definitely be helpful. Or, you know, allotting a budget, like if you're having the meal at the hotel, you know, giving, a certain amount of credit towards meals. but, just going out to dinner and, you know, I was including all meals, in the retreat and maybe giving some free time for them to go to dinner on their own would also be helpful. Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor.

Speaker 1 00:12:30  Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats. So if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too. I love that option that they could have, you know, a meal on their own in this cultural experience. I think that that would be a great option, but especially just having the preset, you know, just a preset. This is this is where you can order from. And if you want to order off of this, that's fine, but that'll be at your, your expense. being super clear. But Misty, you know, considering that you had never done this. I don't know that somebody would have thought of that, because you did look at the menus and you estimated and you, you know, you were prepared as much as you could be until you experience it.

Speaker 1 00:13:21  And this is why I always say, like, you really won't know until you do. You know what I mean? Like you, we can plan and we can guess and we can do all the things. And that's good. That's a good start, you know? But until you do it, like your first time doing it, that's when you'll see like, oh, my budget was a little off here. Or oh, I didn't even think about this could happen. What would I do in the future? You know, so so again, this is just another thing that, you know, you won't you won't know everything until you do it. And even when you do it, Misty, there's still going to be times if you decide to do it again. There's going to be times where you're like, well, shit, I didn't think of that either, you know? And that just that just happens over time as you start to accumulate these experiences and these, just things that will come up and and be able to plan for those things.

Speaker 1 00:14:12  So anyway, what else? so my other lesson, which I have heard many times from Aaron, and then also more recently Dora Rankin, was not to just market your retreat, but to sell the retreat. And I think I did a great job putting all the beautiful marketing and all the wonderful things that we were going to be doing, and it got people to say, oh, wow, that sounds like a great experience. But that's all I was doing was marketing. I did not ask for the sale, and that's very challenging for me. so definitely lesson learned. And I know that that's something that I need to work on and get more confident at doing, but people aren't just going to come because you put out pretty post and it looks amazing. So, definitely ask for the cell. You know, this is such a big one. Missed this for retreat leaders who've been doing it for years and years. They're still not necessarily doing that part of it, which is why I'm so glad I also had Dora on the show to talk about the difference between marketing and selling.

Speaker 1 00:15:33  And if you are an entrepreneur, really, we're all selling, but especially if you're an entrepreneur, you're also a sales person. Like this is part of it. And you're right. Marketing isn't selling. Marketing's attracting, but it's not selling. And so I'm so proud of you for talking about that. And in general, Misty, thank you so much for being vulnerable and sharing, you know, your lessons, but also the fact that you were super, super like upfront saying, I don't know, you know, if I want to do this again, I, you know, like that's, that's a real thing and maybe you just need some time to like, release some of the, let's just be honest. Trauma of it. To release some of that trauma and then get reignited with your passion and your why and and what it could look like, and knowing that some of the quote unquote worst has already happened. Right. I mean, really, it has. And so because I don't want you to give up, because I want to come on one of your retreats.

Speaker 1 00:16:30  Like you're speaking my language when it comes to travel and cultural experiences. I just think that that is, it's something that's so needed and it's such a beautiful thing. And not to mention that your energy is absolutely perfect for it, so I wouldn't want you to give up, but I also would want you to do it with your whole heart. So I don't know. What are you thinking? Where are you at today? So now that it has been, a few weeks since my return from a very challenging time, and have given it some more thought, I do want to continue. And in fact, I do want this to be a more a cultural Role travel experience. that will be unique and fun. And, I'm already looking at planning my next one. I'm hoping that it will be in New York, in December. A little Christmas, Christmas trip. So, I'm in the process of, hopefully trying to get that together, and I've got a few other ideas in mind for 2026, so we'll stay tuned for that.

Speaker 1 00:17:42  So I'm not giving up yet. Good, good. That makes me so, so happy I really don't. And some people may just not want to stick around that long, but I really don't think you truly, truly know until your third one. And I know that sounds funny. Like why the third one? Well, the first one. You're almost just like a deer in headlights. No matter how much you work with Aaron, who's amazing. You work with Dora, who's amazing. Like they gave you a good framework and they're continuing to do so, but they're not the one hosting, right? Your first one you are. And so it's just like that kind of deer in headlights first one. And then you were happened to be blessed with a lot of challenges in your first one. Right. So but anyway, the first one is just like the deer in the headlights. The second one is like, okay, I'm getting traction. I figured out some things that I feel did not work.

Speaker 1 00:18:30  I've learned some lessons, and you're kind of like, okay with this new mindset, but it's really like your third one that you're like, you've you've pretty much fine tuned who you want to be, who you want to be there with you, what your message is, what the experience is going to feel like for you and your guests. Like it's really fine tuned by your third one. And that's when you know, in my opinion, you're like, yes, this is what I want to do. Or you're like, nope, I want to be a guest on retreats instead instead of this. And so, like, I really don't feel like, you know, to your third one. So I'm really happy that you are. You're going for it again. And if people want to find out about your retreats that are going to be coming up. How can they find you? So they can find me on my website, which is breathe River oaks.com/retreats. And, you know, I figure at this point I can only go up from here.

Speaker 1 00:19:30  I agree, Misty. I agree. listen, I if we, we should have a whole show about all the things that we've learned. I hate saying the word wrong because it just it isn't wrong. It just is what it is. And it's just a learning experience. But I have had some doozies in my life. Misty in my retreat life of of guests that were in pain and lashing out. physical issues of, you know, altercations. I have had some, some things. And so let me just tell you that that's okay. Like, it really is. Okay. It's part of the learning experience. And, it makes us so much better at what we do. It makes us so much better at holding space. And it is so true. It can only go up from this one. Misty, because you did have quite a few challenges. But I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you for keeping your head up through it all. You were texting us and you were super receptive and, and honestly, at the end of the day, you have such a beautiful heart.

Speaker 1 00:20:27  So I'm really, really glad that you're going to continue doing this. Thank you. Shannon. Yes, I'm so excited. So all of her information will be in the show notes. Please go give Misty some love. Check out her retreats. But if anything, just give her some love and encouragement. Because we've all been there in our lives or careers where we're like, is this what I want to do? You know? Am I in the right space? And so it just feels good to be supported and loved. So misty. I'm so proud of you and I can't wait to see what you create. Thanks, Shannon. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to the Retreat Leaders podcast. Learn more at the Retreat. See you next time.

In this episode of The Retreat Leaders Podcast, Shannon Jamail is joined by social media strategist and author Robin Nathaniel (@robbinmarx) to dig into what it really takes to build a retreat brand that thrives online—without having to chase every trend.

Robin brings two decades of experience in social media and shares how to focus on authentic, audience-focused content that stands out in an AI-driven world. From aligning your content with your brand's voice to Robin's powerful SYNC framework (Simple, Yield, Natural, Change), this episode is packed with gems for retreat leaders who want to grow their impact without burning out online.

They also discuss:

• The myth of “going viral” and why it’s overrated
• How to identify your content bandwidth and platform sweet spot
• Why “100% human-made” content is gaining new value
• The power of speaking directly to your audience like a best friend
• A sneak peek into Robin’s Social Media Sync Bundle, made just for you!

Grab your free Social Media Sync Bundle from Robin: landthetalk.com

Connect with Robin: Website: https://robinnathaniel.com/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

--------

Full Transcript

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:00  Welcome to the Retreat Leaders podcast, your sanctuary with retreat experts. Where we spill the tea on retreat success. Here we dive into crafting transformational guest experiences. Talk about how to avoid pitfalls and unlock marketing secrets. Whether you're a seasoned guru or a budding enthusiast, we've got the inside scoop for you. Join us as we learn how to flourish in this magical world of retreats. Hey guys, welcome to or welcome back to The Retreat Leader's podcast. I'm excited because I have another amazing guest today in. My guest is going to be talking about something that I think 99.999% of the people who are in our space think it's one of the most important aspects of marketing and growing your retreat business. And I would agree with you, although I also think email is important, but we are going to talk about social media. And so welcome, Robin Nathaniel to the show.

Speaker 2 00:00:54  Thank you so much for having me, Shannon. I'm pumped to talk to your audience about social media, and I'm confident that they'll walk away with some value today.

Speaker 1 00:01:03  That's fantastic. Robin, why don't you just first start off by telling us a little bit about who you are and what brought you to this space that you're in now.

Speaker 2 00:01:10  Yep. So I started my career off in music. I was a performer as well as an event organiser and a producer. And then in 2010, I had my first child, my, my, my son. And when he was born, I was like, I need to get a job. So I switched gears and joined the non-profit field, and I moved up in non-profit leadership. And then the pandemic hit. When the pandemic hit, me and my family left our busy life in New York City to move down to the green pastures of the Atlanta area. And I reset and, shifted from my career in nonprofit leadership to finally take a hold of my marketing, career, which I have a degree in which I had been doing social media since the days of Myspace and Friendster and just led me down this path of social media leadership.

Speaker 2 00:01:59  Now I lead a small team for local government with social media, and I also have an independent boutique agency where we support mission driven organizations and nonprofit with social media solutions.

Speaker 1 00:02:09  Oh my goodness. I love so much about this, and I love that you've been in the industry for as long as you have, because and I think it even said it on your website somewhere when I was doing some research, like it's, it's not heard of for someone to be in the social media space for over 20 years. So how have you hung on this long? I have to know.

Speaker 2 00:02:30  First of all, it's just like interest, right? So me getting into social media early, I got to see the beginning with sites like Friendster and Myspace, even six degrees before that. Right? And what I found was the power of being able to communicate with people in another place with a push of a button just blew me away, and I knew that there was going to be something there, so I just had a general interest for it.

Speaker 2 00:02:55  I think when I started getting into it on an academic level because I was an adult learner for college and I had to like write papers around social, do research. It just opened my mind on a whole, on a whole nother level. And I believe that's what separates me from other people in the industry. And if people read my book, they'll see some of my philosophies kind of butt heads with what the quote unquote gurus are saying in the space. I have some conflicting messages and we'll talk more about it, but generally it's just the love for being able to impact people all over the world.

Speaker 1 00:03:29  Okay, well, I'm glad that you are here, and I'm glad that you're in this space and that you've been in this space for this long. I have been a user since the Myspace days. I did start in marketing when Facebook first became kind of like to me, it seemed like the very first real engine of social media marketing. This is well over ten years ago. And so I've been marketing in the the social media space since then.

Speaker 1 00:03:55  However, it has been hard as hell for me to keep up. I'll just be honest with you. The algorithms change. The expectations change. The rules change what works. Change is a new platforms on the horizon, you know. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, there's so many moving parts now. Compared to when I used to just spend 100 bucks on Facebook and get a really good return. And so keeping up has got to be something I don't know. That's its own beast.

Speaker 2 00:04:20  It really is. And I and one thing that I mentioned early on in my book is that I work in this space, right? Like literally I wake up in the morning at 5 a.m. and I'm all, I'm all social media until I lay down right and I can't keep up. So don't feel bad. Just know that it moves so fast. And especially with the, the rise of AI, it's just increasing the pace of the, the growth and and and this the platform changes. So that's why in my teaching and in my philosophy, I focus on a concept that I call algorithm proof content instead of people becoming, you know, essentially slaves to what the platforms are doing or liking.

Speaker 2 00:05:01  Just focusing on human connection through their content and creating strong, intentional relationships with their audience.

Speaker 1 00:05:09  Okay, now you're speaking my language. So let's let's dig into it. Let's talk about some strategies. Did you want to start there with this algorithm proof concept or or talk to me. What do you want to start with.

Speaker 2 00:05:19  Yeah we can start with algorithm proof content. So one thing that I found in all of my years in social is that folks are glued to what the next big thing is. For example, years ago when Snapchat first came out, people were hyped about Snapchat and then Instagram totally stole their model, which they often do, right? And then they created stories and then everyone shifted the stories. So what I felt like is that essentially we're on this seesaw. Whichever way it's going, we're going to slide to that end. And when the weight shifts, we slide with it. And what happens is you get seasick. You're like you. You know, like we're overwhelmed. We're confused.

Speaker 2 00:06:02  We don't know which way to go. And we're just back and forth on this social media seesaw, if you will. And what I found is that staying in the center and identifying the fact that the one unique proposition value proposition that you will have in whatever business you do, whether it's organizing retreats or whether you sell donuts, is you is the person behind the brand, the the the person who fuels the wheels. And if we can lean into that and really find a way to communicate directly with our ideal target audience, that we create algorithm proof content, regardless of the platform, regardless of the medium. You can write it, you can videotape it, you can take a picture of it. It's still going to be authentically you.

Speaker 1 00:06:48  So you are speaking my language on so many fronts. The first one really being just being you. Like, don't try to be someone else. Don't try to copy this thing that looks really good or is doing really well. Don't try to follow just all the trends in the whatever.

Speaker 1 00:07:03  Like you can use some of this information, but it has to be authentically you. It has to have your voice, your spin, your whatever. So I love that. And then in conjunction with that, making sure that it is speaking to your ideal audience, you know, like I can't tell you how many times someone's like, oh, I did this post and it's really, really good. And I look at it, I'm like, it has nothing to do with your business at all. Like, you're doing it on socks and you're over here trying to sell, you know, mental health strategies or whatever. And so it has to be directed directly to your target audience. It has to be authentic to you. And I love that. That is like the whole concept behind algorithm proof, because you're right. If you're speaking to your people, like literally someone who's looking, looking, listening, watching, whatever, if they're feeling like, man, she or he is speaking directly to me, it doesn't matter what the algorithm is doing, right?

Speaker 2 00:07:54  It really doesn't.

Speaker 2 00:07:55  And I and I and I have a quick story to share with you. So I got on TikTok in 2020 and I had some success, and it kind of led to my independent boutique agency. I had a couple of videos go viral. Both videos had over 2 million views. But like you said, the videos weren't necessarily aligned with my mission. My, the the videos weren't necessarily speaking directly to my ideal target audience member. And essentially the, the the videos were just vanity metrics, right? They got me a lot of followers. They got me a bunch of views. Flip the other, flip that coin. And on the other side of that coin, I did a video on Facebook a few years later, I want to say it had 500 views, Shannon 500 views, and it was basically me sharing one of my signature frameworks. I got a call or I got a message I should say that led to a call that led to a long term client that that generated tons of revenue for my business.

Speaker 2 00:08:56  So the point is. Vanity metrics and chasing views, likes and the surface level performance metrics is not where we are in this era as I can. Continues to evolve. Human connection is going to be valued more than anything else. There's going to be a time where the way you go to a fair or a, you know, a craft fair and you go around the tables and it's like, you, you sold that together. Yeah. It was human made, I made it. It's made by me, the creator. The content will be the same way. Shannon. Mark my words. People will stamp 100% human made and it's going to have a premium value. So that's why I'm leaning into people or or encouraging people to lean into the human aspect of content creation and social media in general.

Speaker 1 00:09:44  Oh my gosh, I, I had to mute myself, but I could almost fall off my chair when you're like, it's going to be stamped human made because you are so right. You're so right.

Speaker 1 00:09:55  That is where we're headed right now. And it's getting easier and easier to spot AI. And we'll just call it sometimes IBS all over the place. And people are going to be like, they're done. They're over that. Scroll on, keep going. Tune it out. They're going to be looking specifically for human made content. Human made everything. And so I love that so much. Talk to me about what other strategies retreat leaders should be considering. maybe these are strategies that you've shared in your book that they should be considering when they're trying to grow their audience and grow their business.

Speaker 2 00:10:27  I think for retreat leaders, and again, I'm grateful to be on your platform, Shannon, because, this is an audience that I don't get to speak too often, but I've had some, life changing experiences at retreats. So for that reason, I'm really grateful for this opportunity. It really depends on what part of their journey they're on. So let's speak to the retreat leader who is not on social, is fearing social, has some trepidation around even starting like the journey.

Speaker 2 00:10:54  What I would encourage them to do is to first start with identifying their bandwidth. That's the first step. I think oftentimes when people say, you got to get on social media, we open an account on every single platform. We, we, we fire up Canva, we create images for everyone and we just let it rip. Right? While that is social media, that's not strategy, and I don't think it's the best use of your resources. Right. So I would first identify your your your bandwidth. Is it going to be you. Is it going to be somebody on your team? How much of our time for our marketing contributions can we commit to this? And as we go into 2026, I will also as a ninja trick just right now, as you're if you're working on preparing budgets for next year, you should really prioritize align for social media. So whether you bring in a team to help you, a consultant and strategists like myself, or if you empower somebody on your team. So that's the first step, is just figure out who's going to do it and how much time can they spend to it? Spend, spend on it.

Speaker 2 00:11:54  Next you want to clearly identify your ideal audience member. So we talked about it earlier. customer avatars. There's so many terms around ideal viewer, just the person that you want to speak to in your content. And I know what people are going to think. Well, Robin, if I speak to one person, how will I? I'm going to miss out on so many other people. It's a common concern that people, people have. One thing that I've seen is that when people speak to one ideal audience member in their content, especially smaller organizations who have like one, set of people that they're speaking to, the other people will get attracted. So even if you're speaking to Jane, 29, who lives in Ohio, Jimmy, 35, is her husband, and he'll hear you and listen to you, too. So that's the next thing. Identify your ideal, target audience member. So stop me at any point. Shannon, I'm going to kind of push through this.

Speaker 1 00:12:45  So you're speaking my language.

Speaker 2 00:12:48  So third step after you know your bandwidth, you know your ideal audience member. The third step. Now, what you want to really lean into is where your people are. Let's go and let's do some market research. Where are our folks hanging out? If you have an existing audience. Do a survey, send out an email, blast. Send out mailers. Whatever you do to communicate with your audience. Get on the phone. Even if it's 10 to 15 people, to do a small little experiment to find out where people are. Now here's where people sometimes get confused. Let's say all of your people are on Facebook, but now you have a intern who only knows how to use TikTok. So now you need to decide, do you want to teach this person how to operate on Facebook? Or do you want to start off on TikTok? Because having a person on your team who is equipped to actually do it is an important part of it. I lean towards going where the audiences, and if you want to do a balance of starting with two platforms, if you have someone who's skilled on another platform besides your audience's preference, then that's something you can consider as well.

Speaker 2 00:13:55  So now you know where you're going to be. You know who's going to do it and you know who you're speaking to. The next step is really figuring out the medium that the the person or that, that team member is comfortable with. Is it writing? Maybe if it's writing, you should focus on LinkedIn content. Maybe you should focus on Twitter. or X threads, maybe blue sky. If it's video, maybe you have a founder that's extremely comfortable on camera, like Shannon here. Maybe you shoot a long form podcast episode and then cut up the clips and create video content. Maybe you have a skillful photographer on your team, or a graphic designer that you can maybe use that content on a platform like Instagram or even X, Twitter or LinkedIn. So identify where your strengths are and then decide on the medium. And another ninja trick. Do not sign up or do not get active on every single platform, just pick one. Just start with one. Because what happens is people get burnt out there.

Speaker 2 00:14:58  They're trying to use social media management tools. If you want to reserve your handles on all of the platforms, that's okay. Put a profile picture, put a bio and put your flag in the ground. But pour your energy into the platform where your team member who's or leading this charge is comfortable and you have skills in that medium. And then the last step. Let it rip. Double down and triple down when things work well. If you have a photo post that goes off. Lean into that. If you have a video post that does well. Lean into that, but continue to experiment and just continue to contribute the energy, time, and space into this opportunity.

Speaker 1 00:15:40  Hey, retreat leaders, pause that retreat planning for just a second because I've got something you do not want to miss. I'm headed to London this October to host a live event that's all about teaching you how to host a retreat that's not just transformational, but actually profitable. Imagine sipping tea or champagne with other like minded leaders while mapping out your next sold out retreat.

Speaker 1 00:16:02  It's happening at the gorgeous Waldorf Hilton in London. I'm spilling all the secrets from pricing to planning, marketing to mindset, and you'll walk away with a strategy you can actually use. No fluff, no BS, just results. So head to Retreat mastermind and come join me across the pond. Okay, I love unpacking all of this. This is such good stuff. A couple of things that I heard, especially when you talk about like your bandwidth, like how much you know, time and energy are you able to dedicate to this? Because there's so like you said, there's so many people out there like you have to post ten times a day, you have to post 20 stories. You know, there's just all of this stuff and you could should yourself to death in this, this realm, right. In the social media realm, you could shoot yourself to death, but it really comes down to what's the bandwidth that you are going to deliver high quality, targeted, unique, authentic information. And if that's once a week and it's good shit, okay, go after it.

Speaker 1 00:17:04  You know, like just really understanding what your bandwidth is. On the flip side, I do love the fact of having some sort of consistency, and only because the social media platforms love some sort of consistency. They do like consistency. The algorithms may change, but they really no matter what. I think all of the algorithms are always going to like some sort of consistency. So consider that when you're when you're thinking about your bandwidth. And I do think, Robyn, people just need to hire it out if they don't have it, if you don't have the bandwidth, you've got to hire it out. If you if you think you can not have social media and grow your business in today's world, man, I don't want to tell you you can't. But holy shitballs, you're making it so much harder for yourself unless you already have some sort of giant following from way back when. Social media has got to be part of your your your your marketing. It just does. So whether it's you or hiring it out or whatever.

Speaker 1 00:17:58  I also love what you said about whoever's doing it. Where are where is their strength, right? Is it written or is it a video? Is it pictures? Is it graphics then? I love that so much. You don't have to do all the things right. It could just be where's the strength? The only key thing that I would say that I really focus on is if you're going to pick a platform, pick the one where your audience is. You know what I mean? Like, most of my audience is in Facebook. They just are like for my retreats, not necessarily for the Retreat Leaders podcast. Believe it or not, a lot of them are on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook. But if I had to pick out of all of them, I would probably be more Instagram. But my retreat guests who attend my retreats, they're on Facebook, right? And so where are your people? And man, all you have to do is a quick chat GPT or Google search and say, here's my target audience and describe that one person to the T.

Speaker 1 00:18:54  You know, what's their age, what's their gender, what's their religion, if any? What's I mean, I mean, describe them down to a T and then ask, where do they hang out the most in social media? Where does this demographic hang out the most? And that's what you go after. And I mean, like you said, double down, triple down, quadruple down, like nail it on that one platform. What's your thoughts?

Speaker 2 00:19:16  I love all of that. And I and I agree with you totally. I do want to just, piggyback off of, the idea of, you know, picking the platform and using. I, I get a bad rap because some of my, my philosophies appear to be anti AI, and I'm not. I use AI every day, and in my book I'm constantly going through it like I'm not an AI hater. Please. Like, like, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hate on AI because I'm not. So I think that if you don't have any access to audience right now, that that is a great suggestion for people to just put it in the chat.

Speaker 2 00:19:56  GPT and, try to get some results there.

Speaker 1 00:19:59  Yeah, I'm, I'm super pro I, but I'm pro I with your voice. And all I mean by that is I feed the information into AI and then ask for ideas or spin offs or adjustments or give me something that I haven't looked at or whatever. So like, like I mentioned like give AI all the information and then ask AI based on this, where are my people hanging out at? If you don't already have an audience and you don't already know where they are? Yes, I totally agree with you. But I also use AI every day. It is getting you know, I know we're going off subject, but AI is one of those things where it's like either you're going to use it or you're going to be behind. At some point. It just is going to happen. And I don't think AI is going to replace people, but it's going to replace people who are not using AI, if you know what I'm saying. Like, it's there's a difference, like AI is going to be your tool and it will replace people who don't use AI, is what I mean.

Speaker 1 00:20:51  So? So anyway, so yeah, I'm a big believer in all of that. Talk to me more about your book. Tell me what people can hear about or find in your book. Like why does someone need your book? Because it sounds like they do.

Speaker 2 00:21:01  Yes. So I gave a Ted talk back in 2024, and when I got off of the stage, I knew that I wanted to write a book. I just didn't know what the book would be. And then some things happened. I had some, personal issues come up, and it kind of went on the back burner, Shannon and I, and I was like, I guess I'll just do it when I do it. I went on a podcast, talk to a gentleman that really just spoke to my soul, like he was asking me questions about my mom, my brother, just all of these deep questions. And I'm ready to, like, talk social media, right. And like, literally was bringing a tear to my eye in this interview.

Speaker 2 00:21:37  And when I left the interview, I said, I have to finish the book, I have to I took all of my ideas, doubled down, talk to my wife, got her blessing, wrote in the morning, wrote in the evening, narrated and recorded in the car. Sent it to an editor and it used the framework from my talk, which I think is poetic because the talk is really about in person interactions, where this is the version for digital interactions, and really it's built on my sync framework. And what sync is, is basically a framework that we can use to build intentional human connections online. So S is for simple. Oftentimes online people want to be the smartest person in the chat room, right? Like, oh, the dexterity of the physicality of like dude. Like just just tell me it's rough around the edges. Right? and simple is really that, that that concept of boiling something down to make it super easy for people to receive and consume. Y is for yield to your intentions.

Speaker 2 00:22:44  It's all about being intentional. Before you start writing, before you start taking pictures, before you start filming a video. Thinking about what do I want? How do I want people to feel, and what kind of action do I want people to take? And if you really want to be an overachiever, how can I do it in a positive light, right? Like, what kind of positive impact can I have on folks? n is for natural. Oftentimes people step into online spaces with corporate speak needing to sound as professional, as clean, as as clean as possible. It's okay to say y'all. If you say y'all, it's okay to say wanna w a n n a. If that's what you say when you speak a little, cheat sheet that I give people or trick that I give people is when you write a piece of content, especially when you're thinking about written, form content, read it back to yourself and ask yourself, would I say that if I was talking to my best friend? And when writing, try to write like you're writing to your best friend.

Speaker 2 00:23:45  If you're if you look at your ideal audience member, target audience member as your best friend. That's a hack to like, write like you're writing to someone you love and you care about. And when you read it back, if it doesn't pass that test, you might need to go back to step one and make it a little more simple. And the last step is C for change it up online. We talked about the seesaw where we're just going with the flow. What did they what did Adam Mosseri from Instagram say. Oh we got to do stories. Let's do stories. No, no no reels okay. Let's go back to reels. And we're on this daggone hamster wheel of following the the trends of what the gurus are saying. What I would recommend is to change it up, listen to new voices, try new things. If everyone is zigging, try zagging and see what happens. If you always do written content, maybe change it up next month and try a couple of videos and that will give you the opportunity to give more flavors at your ice cream shop, and maybe folks will gravitate to one of those different styles of content.

Speaker 2 00:24:48  And that's a quick and dirty breakdown of the sync method from my book Social Media Sync.

Speaker 1 00:24:53  Hey, it's Shannon here. I'm just popping in really quickly to ask a big favor. Would you pause the show and go review it for us, please? Reviews really help us to be able to get more guests and more experts on the show to help you transform your retreats. So if you wouldn't mind pausing and leaving us a review, that would mean everything. And if you're not already subscribed, do that too. Heck yes. Oh my goodness, all of that stuff. I especially love the whole when you're writing and whether it's writing, talking or anything, do it like you're talking to your best friend. Oh my gosh, that should be the heart of all of the content that you deliver is like your best friend or someone that you love and care about. So. Yes, yes, yes. Well, we're going to wrap it up with you telling us about something that is for the audience. You have a little gift for the audience.

Speaker 1 00:25:39  You want to tell them about that?

Speaker 2 00:25:41  Yes, absolutely. So I was thinking about what I could do to provide you with next steps on where to go. If you're on your social media journey, especially if you're just starting out, and even if you've been in the social media, you know, world for a while and you've been putting out content for years, having a fresh perspective always helps. So what I created is what I'm calling my Social Media Sync bundle. What you get is two free eBooks. These are robust ebooks that give you a play by play of how to fine tune on social media and how to get started. But also, I'm going to give you a free preview of my book. It would mean the world to me if you took some time to check it out. I include a chapter. I also include the intro and a foreword. So you get like the intro of my book essentially, and you would also get onto my email list. So when when you sign up, all you have to do is reply to the email and I'll respond.

Speaker 2 00:26:37  I'll respond to all of my emails. So you if you have a question about anything we talked about today, if you want to go deeper, just reach out to me directly. I'm accessible, approachable, and honestly, I would enjoy connecting with you. And to get all of that, the Social Media Sync bundle, all you have to do is visit land the talk.com land the talk com that's also the name of my podcast.

Speaker 1 00:27:00  Heck yeah. That will all be in the show notes as well. So if you are driving and you're not able to grab it on the air, then just pause the show and grab it from the show notes. So Robin, thank you so much for being an incredible guest on the show and for your very valuable information on social media strategies. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 00:27:18  And I appreciate you. And I just want to say, Shannon, you are an amazing host, and thank you for sharing a little bit of your life with me today.

Speaker 1 00:27:24  Oh thank you. Thanks for listening to The Retreat Leader's podcast.

Speaker 1 00:27:29  Learn more at the Retreat. See you next time.

In this fiery solo episode, Shannon Jamail gets real about a truth many retreat leaders need to hear: the biggest block in your retreat business isn’t the economy—it’s you. If you’ve ever said, “People just aren’t spending right now,” or felt tempted to lower your prices just to fill spots—this one’s for you.

Shannon breaks down the mindset shift that will transform the way you sell your retreats and communicate their true value. She’ll show you how to stop apologizing for your prices, own your worth, and confidently sell your retreat as the life-changing investment it is.

Whether you’re hosting your first retreat or scaling your next, this episode is your invitation to stop shrinking and start standing in your power. Tune in and get ready to ditch the discount mindset and step fully into the role of transformational leader.

Episode Highlights:

• Why the economy isn’t the problem (and what is)
• How perceived value impacts retreat sales
• What it means to “sell the transformation, not the features”
• The #1 thing you need to shift before trying another promotion
• How to speak to your ideal client’s soul—and not the bargain shopper’s wallet

Read our full blog here: https://theretreatleadersplaybook.com/the-biggest-block-in-your-retreat-business-is-you-not-the-economy/

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats 
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify

In this solo episode, host Shannon Jamail gets fired up and shares exactly what it means to level up as a retreat leader—and why it goes way beyond fancy goodie bags or extra plush pillows in your yurt.

Fresh off a transformative retreat teaching experience in France and actively learning from high-level masterminds like Genius Network, Shannon lays out how growth happens through mentorship, aligned community, and being in the right rooms.

She also gets real about the flood of new "retreat coaches" in the industry—and why it’s more important than ever to vet your mentors and follow leaders with lived experience, not just big promises.

If you’re ready to stop playing small and start treating your retreats like a real business (with profit, purpose, and power)—this episode is your loving wake-up call.

What You’ll Learn:

• What “leveling up” really means in the retreat world
• Why who you surround yourself with determines your growth
• How Shannon’s trip to France & Genius Network shifted her leadership
• A no-fluff truth bomb about BS in the retreat coaching industry
• How the Retreat Leader Membership can give you the support you’ve been missing
• Why treating retreats like a business (not a hobby) is non-negotiable for success

Favorite Quote:

"You don’t get to the next level by doing the same things and hanging with the same crowd." — Shannon Jamail

Read our full blog here with this link

The Retreat Leaders Podcast Resources and Links:

• Learn to Host Retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Top 5 Marketing Tools Free Guide
• Free Top 11 Tips for Building an Email List 
• Get your legal docs for retreats
• Join our private Facebook Group
• Join our LinkedIn Group
• Join me in London

Thanks for tuning into the Retreat Leaders Podcast. Remember to subscribe for more insightful episodes, and visit our website for additional resources. Let’s create a vibrant retreat community together!

Subscribe:

 Apple Podcast | Google Podcast | Spotify