The Stay or Go Podcast for Women Considering Divorce

Episode 87: In this conversation with my dear friend Quinn, we finally do what I wish someone had done for me all those years ago. We open the black box of divorce and lay the process out in a way that is human, honest, and actually useful. Not theory, not legal jargon, but the lived reality of two women who walked very different paths through the same fire.

Quinn’s journey into divorce was long and chronic, shaped by decades of Mormon conditioning and a lifetime of being told not to trust herself. Mine was sharper and more sudden, driven by depression, suicidal ideation, and the painful awakening that I wasn’t broken, the systems around me were. Together we unravel how religious, cultural, and patriarchal messaging keeps women trapped in self‑blame and confusion long past the point where something in their soul knows the truth.

From there we walk step‑by‑step through the process itself. Trial separations, the moment you know, the strategy required before you tell him, the emotional whiplash of filing, and in my case, the shock of living under the same roof after the divorce was underway. We talk temporary orders, discovery, mediation, attorneys who fight for you, and the strange mix of grief and relief that comes as the legal structure finally begins to take shape.

And then Quinn offers what most people never get to hear. What happens after the decree is signed. What happens when an ex refuses to follow orders. What happens when you need legal protection. What it is like to work with the courts, child protective services, school counselors, and low‑cost legal aid. What it looks like to slowly build a self so solid that you no longer bend to chaos but meet it with clarity and consequence.

This episode is not about telling you whether to stay or go. It is about turning on the lights so you can stop imagining monsters and start seeing the terrain for what it truly is. If divorce has felt like a void you are terrified to step into, I want this conversation to feel like a hand on your back saying, You can do this. You can learn. You can prepare. You can choose the life that calls to you.

Your life, your story, and your safety matter. And you do not have to walk this part alone.

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Episode 86: Ohhhh my loves — this one’s a biggie. 💥 What started as a simple question from one of my beautiful Substack subscribers turned into something so much deeper. In this episode, I finally give the practice of journaling the spotlight it deserves. Not the surface-level, “dear diary” kind of journaling. I’m talking about the real thing. The gritty, raw, healing kind. The kind that has quietly become one of the most sacred tools in my own self-resourcing practice — and one of the top ways I’ve built secure attachment with myself over the past eight years.

This episode is both a personal excavation and a love letter. I talk about what’s been stirring in me lately — the speed of change in our world, the collective instability so many of us are feeling, and why now, more than ever, we need to be able to trust ourselves. Not in some performative, “I’ve got this” kind of way — but in a deep, anchored, soul-level way.

And that’s what journaling can offer when we use it intentionally.

You’ll hear me break down the four journaling styles I’ve organically developed: Growth Documentation, Pep Talks, Brain Dump Dialogues (y’all… this one 👀), and Higher Self Channeling. Each one serves a different purpose depending on where I am emotionally or energetically — and each has played a massive role in helping me show up for myself, especially when the outside world feels anything but steady.

And for my paid Substack crew, I’ve included a gorgeous PDF (because we know we love a tangible tool 💌) that walks you through each style with starter prompts, tips, and even real-life photos from my journals.

Whether you’re in the depths of the considering process or simply craving a deeper connection with yourself, this episode is my holiday gift to you. May it help you remember that no matter what’s unfolding around you, you are your own safe place.

Show Notes:

Handbook for Human Potential Links

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No Bad Parts - Richard Schwartz

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Episode 85: Okay, y’all. This episode has been building all month. After revisiting my journals, hosting powerful conversations in the community, listening to Olivia’s story, and sitting with a few seriously paradigm-shifting insights, I knew I needed to pull it all together and share where I’ve landed.

We’re talking narcissism, but not in the black-and-white, overused “therapy speak” way you’re seeing all over the internet. I’m breaking down the difference between actual narcissistic abuse and emotionally immature behavior that might be just subtle enough to keep you spinning. I introduce the continuum I developed this month—a framework that’s already shifting so much for the women in the community—and talk about how it’s helping us see both ourselves and our partners more clearly.

We also dig into the truth that many of you need most: sometimes someone’s “best” is just not enough for you. Period. And you don’t need a diagnosis to walk away.

So if you’ve ever caught yourself wondering, Is he a narcissist… or am I just overthinking everything? or if you’ve felt the weight of needing a “reason” to leave—this episode is for you 💥

You’ll leave with more clarity, a whole lot more compassion for yourself, and a deeper sense of what it really means to take your power back 🔥

Show Notes:

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Six Keys To Unlock Your Understanding of Narcissism - Substack Article

Are They Really a Narcissist? Do They Really Have Borderline? Are They Truly Gaslighting You? - Podcast Episode

They’re Not Gaslighting You - Isabelle Morley

The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family - Eleanor Payson

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Episode 84: In today’s episode, I sit down with “Olivia,” a woman I worked with one-on-one during the early days of her unraveling a 21-year marriage marked by deep narcissistic abuse. What unfolds in this conversation is one of the most raw, courageous, and unflinching portraits we’ve ever had on the podcast of what it means to wake up inside a marriage and realize: this isn’t love. Not the kind that sees you. Not the kind that holds you.

Together, we trace Olivia’s journey from the exhaustion and confusion of her lowest point—when the gaslighting and emotional manipulation were so constant, she barely recognized herself anymore—to the firestorm of her divorce and, ultimately, to the quiet, grounded peace she’s found on the other side.

She shares what it cost her to stay: the subtle erasure of her identity, her joy, her voice. She shares the moment she realized she was no longer standing up for her kids. And perhaps most importantly, she shares how she clawed her way back—learning to borrow hope, hold boundaries, and honor the wild, beautiful pulse of her own truth.

This episode is an offering for any woman who has doubted what she feels. For those who know something isn’t right but can’t yet name it. For those who are starting to see the cost of staying too long. If you’ve ever whispered to yourself, “I can’t do this anymore,” let Olivia’s story be a companion in the dark and a reminder: your freedom is real, and it is possible.

Show Notes:

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Awake - Jen Hatmaker

The Let Them Theory - Mel Robbins

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Episode 83: This week’s episode feels like opening a sealed box from a past lifetime and discovering not only who I was, but the quiet, determined woman I was becoming long before I could see her clearly. These final journal entries are some of the rawest I have ever shared. They move through the full terrain of my inner world during the months surrounding my separation and divorce, including the parts I still feel in my body when I read them.

Before we dive into those pages, I share a personal update that has been nothing short of life altering. Receiving an ADHD diagnosis as an adult, and recognizing its generational threads, has reorganized so much of my story. It has rewritten the way I see my mother, my own emotional landscape, and the compassion I now hold for the woman I was for so many years without a framework to understand herself. I speak about the transformative impact of discovering medication that finally supports my brain and the grief that comes with wondering what might have been possible for the women who came before me if they had been given the same tools.

From there, we return to the journals. These entries illuminate the beautiful, brutal truth that becoming the woman capable of changing her life is not a single choice but a thousand small ones. In one moment, I am standing in my closet realizing there is no one coming to save me and feeling the terror and power of that truth. In the next moment, I am coaching myself toward a different reality with nothing more than self compassion, deliberate awareness, and the willingness to choose again.

You will hear me navigate the shock of betrayal during my separation, the frightening escalation that often accompanies disentangling from a narcissistic dynamic, and the experience of sitting at a kitchen table telling my children our family was changing. These pages were written by a woman who was terrified, grieving, hopeful, and determined all at once. A woman who had no evidence that her future would turn out the way she dreamed, yet continued to write her way forward anyway.

And then, in the final entry, you will hear a voice that stunned even me when I found it again. A voice that knew without hesitation the life she was creating. A voice that listed out the future I am now living, long before I had the courage, stability, or clarity to imagine any of it realistically. Reading that list feels like witnessing my past self bless my present self, reminding me that soul calls never arrive empty. They carry the architecture of what is possible.

This episode is an invitation to honor your own unfolding in the same way. To see the patterns you are outgrowing, the chapters you are grieving, and the expansions you are already stepping into. To remember that every becoming is patterned with both collapse and creation. And that the you who is writing today’s entry may be the woman your future self thanks for changing everything.

If you are in the thick of it, please know you are not behind and you are not failing. You are mid‑chapter. You are in the woods. You are becoming.

And you are not alone. 💗

Show Notes:

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ADHD for Smart Ass Women - Tracy Otsuka

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This week’s episode feels like opening a sealed box from a past lifetime and discovering not only who I was, but the quiet, determined woman I was becoming long before I could see her clearly. These final journal entries are some of the rawest I have ever shared. They move through the full terrain of my inner world during the months surrounding my separation and divorce, including the parts I still feel in my body when I read them.

Before we dive into those pages, I share a personal update that has been nothing short of life altering. Receiving an ADHD diagnosis as an adult, and recognizing its generational threads, has reorganized so much of my story. It has rewritten the way I see my mother, my own emotional landscape, and the compassion I now hold for the woman I was for so many years without a framework to understand herself. I speak about the transformative impact of discovering medication that finally supports my brain and the grief that comes with wondering what might have been possible for the women who came before me if they had been given the same tools.

From there, we return to the journals. These entries illuminate the beautiful, brutal truth that becoming the woman capable of changing her life is not a single choice but a thousand small ones. In one moment, I am standing in my closet realizing there is no one coming to save me and feeling the terror and power of that truth. In the next moment, I am coaching myself toward a different reality with nothing more than self compassion, deliberate awareness, and the willingness to choose again.

You will hear me navigate the shock of betrayal during my separation, the frightening escalation that often accompanies disentangling from a narcissistic dynamic, and the experience of sitting at a kitchen table telling my children our family was changing. These pages were written by a woman who was terrified, grieving, hopeful, and determined all at once. A woman who had no evidence that her future would turn out the way she dreamed, yet continued to write her way forward anyway.

And then, in the final entry, you will hear a voice that stunned even me when I found it again. A voice that knew without hesitation the life she was creating. A voice that listed out the future I am now living, long before I had the courage, stability, or clarity to imagine any of it realistically. Reading that list feels like witnessing my past self bless my present self, reminding me that soul calls never arrive empty. They carry the architecture of what is possible.

This episode is an invitation to honor your own unfolding in the same way. To see the patterns you are outgrowing, the chapters you are grieving, and the expansions you are already stepping into. To remember that every becoming is patterned with both collapse and creation. And that the you who is writing today’s entry may be the woman your future self thanks for changing everything.

If you are in the thick of it, please know you are not behind and you are not failing. You are mid‑chapter. You are in the woods. You are becoming.

And you are not alone. 💗

Show Notes:

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ADHD for Smart Ass Women - Tracy Otsuka

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Episode 82: In this deeply personal episode, I take you back to the earliest days of my own journey—before I made the decision to divorce. Through sharing two intimate journal entries from 2017, you’ll step inside my inner world at a time when my future felt uncertain, and yet a quiet, insistent voice inside me whispered, “You can change your stars.”

These entries are raw and unfiltered. One captures the first flickers of awakening, a moment when I glimpsed what real love, real home, and real alignment could feel like. The other reflects the doubt, confusion, and self-questioning that followed soon after. Together, they reveal how nonlinear, layered, and sacred this process of transformation truly is.

This episode is for any woman who finds herself in the “before”—the place where hope feels distant and clarity feels just out of reach. It’s a reminder that you’re not alone, that your feelings are valid, and that even in the darkness, there is power in trusting your own soul’s knowing.

My hope is that these reflections illuminate your path as you navigate your own questions and challenges. I want you to see what’s possible when you follow those soul calls—when you allow yourself to believe, even if only faintly at first, that a different life might be available to you.

Show Notes:

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A Knight’s Tale

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Episode 81: If you’re anything like I was, you’re holding it together on the outside, while silently unraveling on the inside. You’ve tried therapy. You’ve tried harder. You’ve read the books and done the journaling. But something still feels off in your marriage—and you can’t quite name what it is.

In this episode, I sit down with the woman who first helped me name it. My former counselor, Paré Underwood, was the person who gently—without ever pushing—began to walk me back to myself. At the time, I didn’t realize I was in a narcissistically abusive relationship. I just thought I was failing. As a wife. As a mother. As a human being.

We talk about what narcissistic abuse actually looks and feels like from the inside, and why it so often goes unrecognized—especially by professionals. If you’ve been in therapy for years and no one has helped you put the pieces together, this conversation will hit home. We explore the small, subtle signs: the self-doubt, the second-guessing, the way you slowly lose access to your own inner voice.

We also dive into what makes women more vulnerable to repeating these dynamics in future relationships, and how to protect yourself without having to shut down your softness or your empathy. Paré shares how she gently helps clients begin to reclaim their thoughts, their preferences, and their reality—even in marriages where there’s no visible “incident” to point to.

This one is deeply personal. It’s for those of you who feel exhausted and confused but still unsure. For those who are wondering, “Is it me?” and quietly suspecting the answer might be no. If you’re starting to consider divorce but feel like your own instincts have been turned against you, this conversation will bring clarity—and hopefully, some relief.

Show Notes:

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The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family - Eleanor Payson

Paré’s Information:

Paré’s Website

Paré’s Resource for Examples of Verbal, Emotional, and Physical Abuse

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Episode 80: This week, I’m bringing you into something that’s been sitting heavy on my heart. It’s a conversation I’ve touched on before, but never like this. I want to talk about what it really costs to follow your soul calls. Not the pretty version, but the actual lived experience. The kind that feels like your life is unraveling and you’re not sure who you’ll be on the other side.

Because here’s the truth. Choosing yourself often comes with loss. Sometimes it means losing your marriage, or the financial stability that came with it. Sometimes it means watching the relationship with your children shift in painful ways. Or realizing the religion, identity, or belief system that shaped your whole world no longer fits. It can look like grief, fear, and uncertainty so big you start to wonder if the cost is just too high.

But in this episode, I want to walk with you through that fire. I want to name what it feels like to stand at the edge of everything you once knew, and still decide not to turn back. To stay with yourself even when you don’t know what’s next. I share stories from women in this community, from my own life, and from the quiet courage I’ve seen again and again in those of you choosing something more honest, even when it breaks your heart.

This isn’t a step-by-step guide. It’s a sit-down, heart-to-heart. The kind where I look you in the eye and remind you that yes, this is hard. And no, you’re not broken for finding it hard. You’re becoming. You’re remembering who you are. And the two things that will carry you through are trust in yourself and trust in something bigger that is still holding your life, even when you can’t see it.

Show Notes:

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Signs: The Secret Language of the Universe - Laura Lynne JacksonThe Surrender Experiment - Michael A. SingerThe Untethered Soul - Michael A. SingerThe Seat of the Soul - Gary ZukavJourney of Souls - Michael NewtonWomen Who Run With the Wolves - Clarissa Pinkola EstesLive Awake Podcast - Sarah Blondin

The Voice of Knowledge - Don Miguel Ruiz

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Episode 79: There are moments in life when the future feels like a wide-open wilderness—unmapped, uncertain, and at times, terrifying. In this episode, I speak from that raw, unfiltered place. This is a deeply personal and present-time transmission, recorded just after attending a No Kings protest that left me both cracked open and powerfully emboldened.

What poured through was more than just reflection on current events. It became a call to reimagine the stories we’re telling ourselves about our lives, our choices, and the future of our world. I share why I believe, now more than ever, that our futures, both individually and collectively, are unwritten. That no matter how much fear or resignation may surround us, we still hold the pen.

Whether you’re watching global systems shake or standing at the edge of your own unknown in a marriage that no longer feels like home, this episode is an invitation to stop outsourcing your certainty to history, to others, or to fear. Instead, I offer a path toward presence, toward living the questions, and toward trusting in the slow, often sacred, unfolding of your own becoming.

This is for you if you’ve been feeling overwhelmed by the weight of everything, or if you’ve been waiting for a sign that it’s okay not to have all the answers. It’s okay to not know. It’s okay to trust the mystery.

Show Notes:

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Zachary Helton Reel

No Kings Rally Reel

Jen Hatmaker Reel

No Kings Rally Reel

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