Porn, Betrayal, Sex and the Experts — PBSE

Masturbation is an extremely controversial topic these days; one that elicits a lot of heated debate. This is especially true when an addict spouse engages in masturbation alone and separate from his spouse. Here's what one PBSE listener had to say about this—

Hello Mark and Steve- I want to say thank you so much for your weekly podcasts. I am a former client of Steve’s, and I still listen to the podcasts weekly. I am so grateful to you both, for your conversations. I listed to your most recent episode, #123, and at the end of it you mentioned the topic of masturbation. I’d love to hear your thoughts on it, as it relates to porn addiction or attachment, and the dynamic that all of this involves. My partner believes that masturbation is natural and something all men do on a regular basis. That there is nothing unhealthy or damaging about it. I believe there can be balance in all things, except when there is porn addiction or serious attachment to porn, involved. My partner has admitted that it is very hard for him not to watch and/or masturbate, but he only needs help in blocking apps, etc. I’d love your thoughts on this. Thank you so much.

-  We are NOT here to talk about masturbation from a moral or religious perspective. We invite PBSE listeners to address this aspect from their own tradition and perspective.

-  Masturbation activates the body's most power "biological reward system"— HOW can this become an unhealthy "crutch/form of self-medication"?

-  Masturbation and the "biology of connection"—climax can "weld" you to fantasy or reality; to self-sex and solo-connection or to a deep, "we" connection—"I" vs. "Us"—which one do you desire most?

-  What you repetitively "connect to" builds a "pattern of connection." What you "attach to" in the fantasy world "detaches" you from the real world. A partner CANNOT compete with a diverse fantasy world that is consistently rewarded and reinforced by sexual climax.

-  How masturbation coupled with fantasy can trigger the brain's "habituation mechanism" and become "insatiable." A "holistic" love and connection in a committed relationship does NOT follow this path nor create this "trap."   

Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to deal with a porn addict gaslighting you—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/is-a-porn-addict-gaslighting-you

Here's an article regarding how pornography can create a "drug-like-dependence"—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/is-pornography-a-drug-addiction

There's a lot of heated debate out there about "what is pornographic" and "what is not." Too often in these arguments, the REAL ISSUES can get pushed aside. Recently, a PBSE listener and spouse, submitted the following with regard to her partner's use of "porn substitutes"—

Just over a month ago, around 2 months into his latest recovery, I noticed my partner watching videos on YouTube that are porn substitutes (eg clickbait 'funny' videos with suggestive thumbnails, videos of women filming themselves wearing short dresses on windy days, Benny Hill videos containing Benny Hill type 'humor' of women being caught in "naughty" situations and other such videos designed to give a "kick". . . . . . . . I'm so so sorry for the long email but I'm feeling so low. I know in yesterday's podcast you mentioned that you've been answering listeners questions for so long - but I would be extremely grateful if you could do an episode on porn substitutes and what problems they carry - my partner still does listen to the podcast from time to time and I think hearing directly on this particular subject from someone other than me might help.

In this episode, Mark and Steve tackle the controversial topic of "porn substitutes"—are they OK in a relationship or not? Do they qualify as part of an "addiction" or are they simply a harmless pastime?  It all comes down to the viewers true INTENTION and the IMPACT that viewing "porn substitutes" has on CONNECTION and INTIMACY in a relationship, as well as on the "maturation process" and development of the viewer. 

Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to HEAL from Betrayal Trauma—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/healing-betrayal-trauma-video

To learn more about HOW to overcome porn and sex addiction, check out this article—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/overcome-porn-sex-addiction

This is Part Three—the concluding episode on "How Mark and Steve moved from defensiveness to fighting for their marriages. In this episode, Mark and Steve talk raw and real to addicts in recovery about—HANGING BACK vs. LEADING OUT.

-  When an addict in recovery "hangs back" in the marriage, what does that look like? 
          -  Checking-the-boxes attitude or "it wasn't on the list."
          -  Waiting for a spouse to apply pressure before taking action; doing the mandatory/minimum
          -  Going into "mopey/victim mode"
          -  50/50 attitude—all about percentages and fairness

-  What kind of mindset/attitude does it take to move from hanging back to LEADING OUT?

-  How SPECIFICALLY can an addict spouse in recovery LEAD OUT? 


Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to HEAL from Betrayal Trauma—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/healing-betrayal-trauma-video

To learn more about HOW to overcome porn and sex addiction, check out this article—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/overcome-porn-sex-addiction

In "Part Two," Mark and Steve address a VERY difficult situation for recovery addicts and their spouses—HOW to navigate people and places that are "triggering" (for both the addict and the spouse)—

-  A review of the people, situations and locations that can be triggering for both spouses.

-  How an addict in recovery can use "grounding techniques" to successfully navigate through triggers.

-  How to prepare for triggering situations IN ADVANCE. 

-  How to "get ahead" of triggers as opposed to being blindsided by them.

-  How to "debrief" and "recap" as a couple AFTER triggering situations.


Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to HEAL from Betrayal Trauma—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/healing-betrayal-trauma-video

To learn more about HOW to overcome porn and sex addiction, check out this article—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/overcome-porn-sex-addiction

One of the greatest challenges we face as sex/porn addicts in recovery is becoming "defensive" when our partners offer feedback, speak their truth, stand their ground, face triggering people or places, etc. We easily go into fight, flight or freeze and DEFEND ourselves as opposed to "fighting for our marriage"!

In "Part One," Mark and Steve share their personal experiences with specifically HOW to go from defensiveness to FIGHTING for their marriages when it comes to—"My spouse is speaking her truth and offering feedback"—how do I handle this in a healthy and connecting way???"

Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to HEAL from Betrayal Trauma—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/healing-betrayal-trauma-video

To learn more about HOW to overcome porn and sex addiction, check out this article—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/overcome-porn-sex-addiction

This PBSE episode is directed at single listeners and those already in a relationship. A PBSE listener who is single sent in the following quesiton—

Hi there! I'm so grateful for your podcast- just found it last week on and feel I've already gained a lot. Here's something I'd love love love if y'all could address: For us single guys (and girls), at what point in recovery can we/ should be/ may we start dating? I know in 12 step circles, many suggest a year of sobriety before dating. In your experience, does that ring true and, either way, how can we internally assess our readiness to date in light of our history with porn/ lust addiction. Thanks so much and may G-d grant you continued success in helping others.

-  There's a saying in sex addiction recovery circles—"If you feel you're ready for a relationship,  start with a plant!"

-  Ask yourself, "Where am I in my "co-dependence" on sex?"  "Is sex in any way a method for emotional avoidance or escape?" "Am I still using sex as a way to "self-medicate" and avoid "whole intimacy"?

-  How can you expect to figure out "We" (sex) before you have figured out "Me"?

-  Contrary to popular culture, sex is NOT the place to start an intimate relationship. It is so emotionally and biologically "intense" that it easily overrides critical "intimacy development."

-  Healthy relationships require a "balanced building." Premature sex and/or a narrowed focus on sex can skew the relationship and make it lopsided.

-  A BIG test as to whether a porn/sex addict is truly on a solid recovery track is his or her willingness and wisdom to "slow down" the push toward sex and develop true, holistic intimacy one-layer-at-a-time.

Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about "true intimacy" vs. "sex" in a committed relationship—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/true-intimacy-vs-sex-in-marriage

In this episode, Mark and Steve respond to a PBSE listener's question about her struggles with her partner lusting after a co-worker—

Hello Mark & Steve,  My partner and I are currently in reconciliation from sex addiction and we are in our 4th month of monthly couples sessions as well as I recently started individual sessions. We really like our sex specialist, but he tells me to not pay attention to [my partner's] "lusting" and to get out of his head when it comes to the lusting as well. My question is: My partner had betrayed me by lusting and acting out with images and thoughts of his coworker. How do I ignore the lusting, as that was one of my main questions to gauge how he is doing by asking him, and it is now one of my boundaries—I don't think he is working on this area, as he still lusts after her week after week and it is tearing me up inside.

-  Relationships are consensual—you have the right to expect fidelity, trust and safety—AND to define what these terms mean for YOU.

-  You also get to decide on the definition of "exclusivity" and the specific boundaries attached to it—what do you want this to look like in your relationship?

-  In a truly connected relationship, each partner must have an "equal voice."

-  Transparency/authenticity on the part of both parties is essential to THRIVE as a couple—this includes behaviors and expectations.

-  Be mindful of the influence that your life history can have on this process:  being raised in a heavily sexualized culture; your family of origin; interactions with peers; rigid religiosity; trauma and abuse; etc. 

Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to HEAL from Betrayal Trauma—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/healing-betrayal-trauma-video

To learn more about HOW to overcome porn and sex addiction, check out this article—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/overcome-porn-sex-addiction

Are you trying to break free from porn viewing and/or other unwanted sexual behaviors, but you just keep falling back into it?! 

In this episode, Mark and Steve get real about their own struggles to attain lasting sobriety–what does it really take? How exactly do you get to that “permanent place of sobriety”? You may be surprised by the answer.  

Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to HEAL from Betrayal Trauma—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/healing-betrayal-trauma-video

To learn more about HOW to overcome porn and sex addiction, check out this article—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/overcome-porn-sex-addiction

In this episode, Mark and Steve answer a spouse's questions about her addict husband and how she will KNOW that he is serious about recovery and no longer lying—

My husband is in early recovery for his sex addiction which he has kept very well-hidden for years. We had our most recent D-Day’s 6 months ago at which time he swore that I knew everything and he was working on changing.. I was seeing a CSAT for betrayal trauma and he was seeing a therapist who specialized in “relationship issues and infidelity” (not my choice). Then I discovered 2 months ago that he was still acting out the entire time and his addiction actually ran much deeper than I originally thought. He has finally accepted that he’s a sex addict after listening to SA meeting tapes and has started seeing a CSAT. My question is- how long until I see any real concrete change in his behaviors? I have over 10 years clean in a 12 step fellowship myself and I understand recovery doesn’t happen overnight, but he is still only “checking boxes” and not going above and beyond as I guess I expect him to in order to save our marriage. How long until I can KNOW that he’s actually changing? He is a master manipulator and has shown me he is capable of looking me straight in the eye while I’m breaking down and flat-out lying to me. How long until I know he’s actually stopped? Or maybe I’m putting unrealistic expectations on him to do a complete 180 in a matter of a month? For context- he says I can look at his phone whenever, we do weekly FANOS check ins, both have CSATS (no disclosure yet, though), I have access to all of his social media, etc. but we all know there are ways around all of this for him to still lie. Your podcast has helped me immensely throughout these past months and I would really be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

Mark and Steve tackle this listener's questions Raw and Real—but perhaps in a way that most people would not tend to think about—it's not about timelines—it's about EVIDENCE!

Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to HEAL from Betrayal Trauma—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/healing-betrayal-trauma-video

To learn more about HOW to overcome porn and sex addiction, check out this article—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/overcome-porn-sex-addiction

In this episode, Mark and Steve address a major challenge faced by many betrayed spouses—they keep uncovering and discovering their addict partner's relapses and bad behaviors. The addict may get some "sobriety" under his belt, but refuses to lead out by proactively pursuing his own recovery work. It seems the only time he does much of anything is when he "gets caught." Here's the situation a PBSE listener presented—

i am messaging you from sunny England about my husband who doesn't know if he is an addict or not. He is 42, I am nearly 40 and we have 3 children. We have been together for 20 years. His porn use has been an issue for over 15years now, and so far, we have had [more than a dozen] D-Days. Your last podcast really resonated with me, where the guy started by saying he had just been found out for the 8th time. It hit me, that [after so many discoveries] still nothing has changed. My husband claims to be porn free for over a year now. I have not found any evidence of use, but his attitude is still as bad as ever. He claims that because he hasn't used for over a year, he must no longer be addicted; in fact he doesn't know if he ever was! He is not in therapy, he is simply just not watching that stuff anymore. In your personal opinion how long can someone realistically white knuckle? Years? Decades? He is the most stubborn person you will ever come across. I am constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop and genuinely don't know where to turn at this point. Many thanks for all that you do for us betrayed wives.

What can or should a betrayed spouse do in a "stuck place" like this or other similar situations? Mark and Steve offer some important insights and guidance.

Learn more about Mark and Steve's new online program—"Dare to Connect!" You have live access to Mark and Steve three times a week--addicts, spouses and couples! Visit—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

Here's an article about how to HEAL from Betrayal Trauma—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/healing-betrayal-trauma-video

To learn more about HOW to overcome porn and sex addiction, check out this article—https://www.reclaimcounselingservices.com/overcome-porn-sex-addiction